Tochiazuma injured, Akinoshima stood up

[Kintamayama 47,191]

Tochiazuma dislocated his left shoulder on the day 4 bout against Tochinonada. Went to hospital yesterday. Doctors say two weeks to heal. This came to light when he didn't show up for Akinoshima's Danpatsu-shiki.

Akinoshima (Fujishima Oyakata) had his retirement hair-cutting ceremony today. The Rolling Stones did not attend, though they were cordially invited. 279 others participated in the cutting, the last being, of course, Futagoyama Oyakata. "I'd like to bring up rikishi that are powerful, yet have beauty in their Sumo, like in the old days", said Fujishima Oyakata.

As for the Japanese press in English , they usually do stuff about foreigners, interviews (like the Musashimaru interview), or when there is an occasional flare-up (like the Asashouryuu chronicles or Yaocho stories) or when a formidable rikishi, foreign or collegiate. enters sumo. During Bashos, they may give the daily results with commentary. AND, they are mostly direct translations from the Japanese versions (Yomiuri and Mainichi) Unless it's Japan Today which gets its stuff mostly from the Shukan Post, which always was a Sumo-bashing tabloid. Other than that, zilch. The real, everyday stuff is found only in Japanese language papers.

Here are the English URLs. See for yourself.

Japan Times

Kyodo News

Mainichi

Asahi-Herald Tribune

Yomiuri

Edited January 31, 2004 by Kintamayama

[Mark Buckton 1]

Our Paper Boy said:

"collegiate"

ANR said - Collegiate reports in an English newspaper? Never seen one but of course could have missed them all over many years of reading every paper daily. Untimely blinks perhaps.

Our Paper boy said - ""Unless it's Japan Today which gets its stuff mostly from the Shukan Post, which always was a Sumo-bashing tabloid""

Our ANR in theatre, close to the action chappie said - Strong comment based on.........ah, nothing.

Also, ANR thought - rich from one who translates papers (note NEWSpapers is not our 'Paper Boy's self chosen logo) with large (soft) porn areas. More believable perhaps are they?

Our Paper boy said - "The real, everyday stuff is found only in Japanese language papers"

ANR, before laughing said - see comment above. And Paper Boy, if 4th person removed speech (sometimes 3rd so) is not considered 'communication' so be it.

ANR - a guy with 18 dislocations of shoulders (at all levels) 11 left - 7 right.

Edited January 31, 2004 by Adachinoryu

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

At first I thought it would be nice to have someone on the forum who is able to follow the action at close distance. Well, wrong. The forum is only getting a lot worse with Adachinoryu. I can only state that I don't want to read his venomous diatribes anymore. And don't say I don't have to read it... this is not to the point. The point is the very existence of those malicious infected submissions in the forum.

My call to Adachinoryu: Please stop this stuff. I suggest refraining from posting to the forum altogether for at least a month and think over it.

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

Yomiuri had the standard picture from Akinshima's retirement ceremony. It feels as if we have seen Futagoyama in this position quite often of late... :

EDIT: I assume that eventually there will be more pictures on this on Akinoshima's official homepage which is rather new and sluggish, but has a few nice pics: Akinoshima.com

EDIT: Daizen's yumitori-shiki was performed on the 1st of February in front of (as far as I understand) 344 people. Yomiuri seems to have chosen a picture with Takanohana-oyakata instead of one with Nishinoseki-oyakata:

There were also pictures available on the news sites of shin-Juryos Tokitenku (top, Yomiuri) and Ama (bottom, Yahoo), but it seems Shigezakura is hiding... He continues to be a mystery (Eh?) Btw, his new shikona Ichinotani is likely the closest old war horse Ichinoya will ever get to Sekitorihood :-|

Edited February 1, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama

[Rijicho 6]

Adachinoryu, you're a nuisance at times.

You are quite welcome to disagree with other members of the forum but only when you're able to express your opinions in an acceptable manner. What is acceptable and what is not can be discussed but ultimately my understanding of acceptability prevails.

I will not tolerate the way you're conducting yourself in this very thread. Therefore consider yourself warned. You're the only member on this forum I can remember who is explicitly ignored by several other members. Please ask yourself why is it like this, then draw your own conclusions. I'm not trying to insinuate anything. Just think about your behaviour. Please.

[Chinonofuji 35]

I don't speak Japanese, but I would like to get more in-depth info. If I went straight to the Japanese websites, are there translation sites that can process the Japanese text with reliability? If so, how costly are they? Thanks!

[Kintamayama 47,191]

I don't speak Japanese, but I would like to get more in-depth info.  If I went straight to the Japanese websites, are there translation sites that can process the Japanese text with reliability?  If so, how costly are they?  Thanks!

Well, there are machine translaters on the web, but they are really bad. If you know some Japanese, the best software (for me) is a free on-line thingy called Rikai.

If you know no Japanese at all, I really don't know of an easy way out.

Edited February 1, 2004 by Kintamayama

[Mark Buckton 1]

I don't speak Japanese, but I would like to get more in-depth info.  If I went straight to the Japanese websites, are there translation sites that can process the Japanese text with reliability?  If so, how costly are they?  Thanks!

Chiyonofuji-san,

try the following - http://www.nifty.com/globalgate/

Far from perfect but works reasonably. Copy & paste your Japanese text into the box on the bottom right. Next, select the 3 kanji to 2 kanji option directly below (this means Japanese (Nihongo is written with 3 kanji) to English (Eigo is wtitten with 2))

Hope it helps.

Doitsyama-san,

you are disappointed. In part my fault but consider this. The close distance action I can / have / do follow(ed) that you refer to IS there in my posts. The problem is the reaction. Not nice to say but on the vast majority of posts I make regarding the up close view I am fortunate enough to have I am usually met with Asashosakari's / Yubi's statistical logic direct from the internet which is to be argued with at one's peril and of course translations of 'papers' here in Japan.

These points are not bad points with which to combat experience but ARE limited. Stats have their place and are never going to agree with opinion. Papers in Japan will say what they are supposed to oftentimes and reality is always the victim. (so many examples of non-reporting / ignoring occur you would find it unbelievable)

This is experience. Sat at a desk on the Rhine or in Israel with a PC you WILL ONLY have the experience that your PC or book shelf provides.

Please don't take this experience word usage wrongly but if you have the time or interest look back over many posts in which I introduce the concept of sumo in Japan (a nation many years of residency in I consider myself to have but scratched the surface of in many areas - in sumo that scratch is deeper) and you will see those posts countered with 'internet available' facts / trivia from textbooks and translations from papers even the Japanese acknowledge as unbelievable at times.

In short - my up close opinions being what they are are more often than not met with such counters that I can only refer to them as motivated by jealously. NO, this doesn't mean I have all the right answers but isn't it a basic human trait, especially with western idals, that we knock down, discredit and even dislike those who have that which we don't? Would those posters that routinely take a stab at me like to be in my shoes. Probably (if only for a limited time).

D-san - your posts during the basho often get the response only of myself concerning the lower rankers that most members don't know because they are still too junior to make writers of book / the net notice them - this is therefore often the only time I can feel safe from 'but, at weight, 134kg, in 1991, this rikishi had a similar finishing move against.....in a bout lasting 7.73 seconds and was the 3rd in history ever to do so. Man, that stuff bores and just over 15 members I have had mails from (many I have never seen post but some almost daily) ask me to continue along my own lines and indicate their boredom of such. (this includes fear of posting against such posters).

Rijicho,

Have always said it - marvelous site but balance the boat friend. Take a look at almost all my posts on non-stat subjects which introduce how Japanese see sumo and you'll see my explaination above justified. Also, of all the members of SF do you have any stats on how many never post? (EDIT - answer own Q at 130ish plus a guestimated 30-40 with under 5 posts) Is this because of fear - in part I know it is and by (my - too strongly / cynically perhaps) going against such posters that give off this image I hope to bring one or two out of their shells. I mean, let's be real - who amongst us would feel comfortable going into a room of professors / mathemeticians to debate 'pi' if we were only just starting out on our interest of maths? Very few. How many would accompany somebody with an argument in place against those people - more but not all. Just more.

Asashosakari & Kintayama are those 'professors of sumo' here keeping many away with their knowledge. I too, I believe to some extent but by mostly offering opinions I provide an entrance to new members / posters that facts do not.

Can you argue with the number of victories Takanohana had in his career - no. With who is the better brother - yes.

R-san - your choice on warning me further but I'll sclose this post in saying balance the boat friend and consider sumo as the Japanese do - from all angles.

Asa / Kint - I only hope neither of you ever goes to my barber for a trim. The debating of sake vs whiskey vs beer as the best drink to condition a rikishi's skin being something you couldn't handle but something many Japanese consider far higher than mere win / loss / method ratios.

ANR

PS - R-san - quite a few have gone through my disagreements with Kinta-san - I'm not the first and won't be the last being used recently.

Edited February 1, 2004 by Adachinoryu

[Asashosakari 20,225]

(...) it seems Shigezakura is hiding... He continues to be a mystery (Eh?)

Wonder no longer. :-| He may be in hiding, but he's got a fan site! With a picture! It doesn't compare to smiling Ama and smiling moto-Asahifuji, but it's, well, something at least. :-/

I don't really feel comfortable hotlinking to a free website host (probably wouldn't work anyway), so just go here.

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

(...) it seems Shigezakura is hiding... He continues to be a mystery (Eh?)

Wonder no longer. :-| He may be in hiding, but he's got a fan site! With a picture! It doesn't compare to smiling Ama and smiling moto-Asahifuji, but it's, well, something at least. :-D

I don't really feel comfortable hotlinking to a free website host (probably wouldn't work anyway), so just go here.

Thanks!

Btw, I found that he actually had a couple of pictures on the Nakamura homepage as well. :-/

Shigezakura on Nakamura-beya's homepage

[Kintamayama 47,191]

I don't speak Japanese, but I would like to get more in-depth info.  If I went straight to the Japanese websites, are there translation sites that can process the Japanese text with reliability?  If so, how costly are they?  Thanks!

Chiyonofuji-san,

try the following - http://www.nifty.com/globalgate/

Far from perfect but works reasonably well.

ChiNonofuji san!

The best thing to do is try it out. I did. Problem with these machine translations is they more often than not translate Sumo terms literally, and the result sometimes is comical. Here is a piece I translated with nifty. If you can understand what's going on, then you have found your solution.

Twins mountain master into whom the Japanese master of the last [ Akinoshima ] in the topknot-cutting ceremony twins mountain room also puts a stop clip by "filled-with-deep-emotion [ -- ]" Akinoshima's (left) retirement formula Fujishima master (36) = twins mountain = of the former third rank junior champion sumo wrestler and Akinoshima performed retirement announcement sumo wrestling in Ryogoku Kokugikan in Tokyo on the 31st. The oxidized silver which gained Venus of the 16 greatest ever on the last day in the twins mountain room inherited by the Takanohana room on February 1 said good-bye in sumo ring life 22. Starting ??? with Mr. eldest son and ?? (house cause) is the last sumo ring. Among the topknot-cutting ceremony, the eye had been closed until the teacher and the twins mountain master (yuan great Seki and ? NO flower) put in the stop clip. "It had cut fine to the heart as if it does not do its best as a master, considering various things." When met in its own face and mirror which became a crop, it laughed, "Is it strange YATSU?" It becomes with a master with the room simultaneously with the Takanohana room start on February 1. the Takanohana master -- this thing [ that one time finishes a twins mountain master, saying, "it remembers the time of having entered a private school by the shaven head and was filled with deep emotion" although it was Japanese-absent ] -- deep emotion -- being deep . The Fujishima master said ambition "wanted to bring up the old-fashioned wrestler whom he also aimed at and who has understood courtesy from now on." (Worth Takehiko) <> Akinoshima Katsumi the Katsumi (loading in striped - of vacancy) real name and Yamanaka. March 16, 1967, Akitsu-cho, Toyota-gun birth in Hiroshima. 36 years old. Twins mountain room. The spring of 82, a first sumo ring. It will be new entry into the makuuchi division to 87-year Nagoya in new juryo and spring of 88. The summer retirement of 03. The highest grade is the third rank junior champion sumo wrestler. 16 Venus and three prizes [ 19 ] (the seven outstanding performance awards, eight fighting spirit awards, four Technique Prizes) are all the 1st. 175cm, 158km (at the time of retirement). A family is my basis Chinese-children wife (36) eldest daughter and hemp Tomoko (seven), and Mr. ?? (four). A speciality is hidariyotsu and slippage.

[Mark Buckton 1]

Yet again sniping at ANR's attempt to help someone in good faith and in doing so pretending it isn't communication.

Chino-san - Good luck. The site I gave you isn't perfect as I said and when you know the basics of what is going on can be OK (funny sometimes but OK) It is of course better than nothing.

NB - it isn't as bad usually as the funny example above which I also laughed at as the program always leaves in particular Kanji (Chinese characters) it cannot translate it thereby having scatterings of Japanese within the English text.

ANR

Edited February 1, 2004 by Adachinoryu

[Kintamayama 47,191]

Sorry..This is communication..Have to answer some of these words... Tried my best to shut up, but these half-truths and outright lies are too much, even for me..

Asashosakari & Kintayama are those 'professors of sumo' here keeping many away with their knowledge.

Huh? One minute all I do is translate from newspapers, and the next I'm a "professor" of Sumo?

PS - R-san - quite a few have gone through my disagreements with Kinta-san - I'm not the first and won't be the last being used recently.

Bullshit. There was only one since the start of the forum, QTTP. Name one more.

you will see those posts countered with 'internet available' facts / trivia from textbooks and translations from papers even the Japanese acknowledge as unbelievable at times.

How do you know which newspapers I translate from, pray tell? Show me one item that I translated that was unbelievable. One.

In short - my up close opinions being what they are are more often than not met with such counters that I can only refer to them as motivated by jealously.

Oh please..your up close opinions? Oh yes, the salt-throwing by lower division rikishi.. Tochiazuma's foot, I'm sure. And the guy has a dislocated shoulder for two weeks,.. hasn't done any keiko..you live right around the corner..and you missed it?

Jealous? Of what exactly? Of the fact that you live in Japan??? I say you're the one that's jealous of my neverending knowledge of Sumo. Seems to me you joined this forum riding that "I have come to enlighten the masses with my understanding of Sumo" horse, and found out the hard way how little you know.

Is this because of fear - in part I know it is and by (my - too strongly / cynically perhaps) going against such posters that give off this image I hope to bring one or two out of their shells.

A regular Robin Hood. I guess them translations that I post are mighty scary, huh? Show me one post where I intimidated someone with my "stats". I don't do stats. The only ones I do are about the foreigners, and those are usually not how much they weigh or how tall they are, but how they are doing record-wise.. Sure they are boring to some. So?

Asa / Kint - I only hope neither of you ever goes to my barber for a trim. The debating of sake vs whiskey vs beer as the best drink to condition a rikishi's skin being something you couldn't handle but something many Japanese consider far higher than mere win / loss / method ratios.

I'm bald.

Edited February 1, 2004 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 47,191]

Yet again sniping at ANR's attempt to help someone in good faith and in doing so pretending it isn't communication.

Chino-san - Good luck. The site I gave you isn't perfect as I said and when you know the basics of what is going on can be OK (funny sometimes but OK) It is of course better than nothing.

NB - it isn't as bad usually as the funny example above which I also laughed at as the program always leaves in particular Kanji (Chinese characters) it cannot translate it thereby having scatterings of Japanese within the English text.

ANR

SNIPING??? Where did I snipe? And I was trying to be helpful too, BEFORE you tried to be helpfulER. I didn't know you programmed nifty yourself..Where's the snipe? This isn't personal. I would have posted that whoever recommended machine translations. Get off it already! I just gave an example of how funny these machines translate. EVERYONE knows these are funny. And yes, it is as bad usually. It's actually much worse. Hey, I'm the translator right?? If anyone should know, I should know..

[Mark Buckton 1]

Tochiazuma's keiko was shown on NHK post Day 4 if I am not very much mistaken.

Also, keiko during a basho is usually closed to all bar media and then not always.

Not attending is considered respectful and I don't go near the place. To attend could be off-putting (partic with a foreign face I'd say) I have heard.

[Kintamayama 47,191]

Tochiazuma's keiko was shown on NHK post Day 4 if I am not very much mistaken.

Also, keiko during a basho is usually closed to all bar media and then not always.

Not attending is considered respectful and I don't go near the place. To attend could be off-putting (partic with a foreign face I'd say) I have heard.

OK. I mean in these two weeks after the Basho. Is there no keiko at the moment, or are they not letting people in, or what?

Hey, this is nice, straightforward communication!!Great!

[Mark Buckton 1]

Tochiazuma's keiko was shown on NHK post Day 4 if I am not very much mistaken.

Also, keiko during a basho is usually closed to all bar media and then not always.

Not attending is considered respectful and I don't go near the place.  To attend could be off-putting (partic with a foreign face I'd say) I have heard.

OK. I mean in these two weeks after the Basho. Is there no keiko at the moment, or are they not letting people in, or what?

Hey, this is nice, straightforward communication!!Great!

There isn't keiko in the first 7 days following a basho - generally. Keiko for most resumes tomorrow morning.

[Chiyozakura 163]

I am one of the silent members of this forum but surely not because I am scared of sumo professors. Of course some posts on this forum are more interesting than others to me, but if I don't care about a topic I don't read it. In the others I seek for information and interesting, well founded-opinions.

All I read from Adachinoryu are arrogant remarks of how wise he is and how stupid everybody else is...he has an opinion and his only argument is that he knows from first hand. Wow! If people in this forum get bored, and I have to add that I do, it is because of reading Adachinoryu's autocratic postings in nearly every thread. I hope he will not only learn the perfect wisdom of sumo, that he is obvioulsy so close to now, but also how to behave in a public forum.

[Tokimori 0]

I agree with Chiyozakura.

[Mark Buckton 1]

To those interested in Azuma's shoulder this will be of interest.

A kind of biographical / follow me with a camera for a month TV show appeared last night. Gist was simple - Azuma's quest for yokozunahood, normal daily life and each day of the current basho. Leavng for te kokugikan and coming home afterwards etc.

Now, if someone else saw it please correct me for being wrong but the disclocated shoulder treatment was ongoing BEFORE the basho started. Aggravated by 2 sekitori landing on him as he sat ringside (combined 300kg) during the basho but to the best of my knowledge NO disclocation in any fight. Admittedly I missed the start of the show BUT day 4 was passed through with no major comment and stills of a man who didn't seem in any pain (18 dislocations for me have always caused pain)

Anyone see it?

ANR

PS - Kinta-san - which paper did it come from. Can't remember anything in the English media.

[Kintamayama 47,191]

PS - Kinta-san - which paper did it come from. Can't remember anything in the English media.

Many, actually.

Jiji: http://sports.yahoo.co.jp/sumo/headlines/j...j_00020407.html

Hochi: http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/hochi/sports/jan/o20040131_35.htm

Yomiuri: http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/sports/news/20040131ie21.htm

Nikkan: http://www.nikkansports.com/ns/sports/sumo...40201-0039.html

All brought about because he was seen at a hospital, and interviewed there.

[Mark Buckton 1]

Thank you. The hospital scene was in the show. Physio, gel, scanning etc - all the standard dislocation treatments. Cameras etc. But, it was before the basho according to my watching of the TV - before New Year / Christmas too as he did the mochi-suki afterwards and the basho was still a while away.

ANR

EDIT Actually for readers unaware of the seriousness of dislocations hope this helps: There are basically 2 main types in layman's terms. Full & partial. Partial oftentimes corrects itself and slides back into place but must be monitored for up to 3 0r 4 hours afterwards to ensure no vein or artery has slipped into the 'vacant' slot - could result in loss of arm in very serious cases. Full dislocation - you are out! Arm is rendered useless and hangs limp. No Mel Gibson bollocks in putting it back by banging it on a wall (Lethal Weapon). You are out for quite a while.

I've had both and have been operated on for such. I pity all those rikishi and none rikisho who suffer this.

Edited February 2, 2004 by Adachinoryu

[Kintamayama 47,191]

Thank you. The hospital scene was in the show. Physio, gel, scanning etc - all the standard dislocation treatments. Cameras etc. But, it was before the basho according to my watching of the TV - before New Year / Christmas too as he did the mochi-suki afterwards and the basho was still a while away.

ANR

Papers all say he was there on January 30th, so must have been a return visit to see how he was doing.

[QttP 0]

I've had both and have been operated on for such. I pity all those rikishi and none rikisho who suffer this.

I've had three partial dislocations of right shoulder. First time came due to own stupidity when carelessly performing a judo throw "for fun". Second and third were recurrences, that probably would have never taken place if not for the first. Second came when I was swinging at a spider with a slipper and was a total surprise for me. That second one hurt more than the first and caused me to consult a doctor, who obviously didn't find anything (I must mention that all three times the shoulder popped into place within seconds). The third time was an even bigger surprise as all I did was opening the luggage door of a bus. That one barely hurt, but it made me realize that I'm now doomed to recurrent dislocations and basically have ruined my own life. I never played tennis, and always wanted to try, but I guess now it's a no-no for me.

[Yoavoshimaru 0]

Second came when I was swinging at a spider with a slipper and was a total surprise for me.

Sooo, did you get the spider????? I hope so, with all the trouble...

I don't think anyone is or should be intimidated by the more experienced members of this forum. I know I wasn't when I first joined. And it is evident in the Introductions and other areas that without exception all new members are enthusiastically welcomed and encouraged to contribute. That's the way it should be...