obscure bit of trivia about the Hatsu banzuke

[Asashosakari 20,222]

There's something rather peculiar about the 9 rikishi who occupy the sanyaku slots in the Hatsu 2004 banzuke; in fact it's a situation that has only arisen on three other occasions since WWII. (Assuming I didn't screw up on my non-automated research. :-P)

Since we've been in a bit of a quiz mood lately, I'll post the answer tomorrow, in case some of our resident stats gurus want to take a stab at it. :-)

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

All have at least one kinboshi?

[Fujisan 533]

Well I dont know how often it happens but is it that they are from 9 different heya?

[Kintamayama 47,175]

No women?

[Fujisan 533]

Something peculier?

They are not all closet gays are they?

[Mark Buckton 1]

There's something rather peculiar about the 9 rikishi who occupy the sanyaku slots in the Hatsu 2004 banzuke; in fact it's a situation that has only arisen on three other occasions since WWII. (Assuming I didn't screw up on my non-automated research.  :-P)

Since we've been in a bit of a quiz mood lately, I'll post the answer tomorrow, in case some of our resident stats gurus want to take a stab at it.  :-)

Asa-san,

Between them their birth (not NSK registered) places represent all 4 main islands of Japan (Hokkaido/Honshu/Shikoku/Kyushu & non-Japan)

or, all have changed shikona once at least ? (purely memory here so perhaps wrong)

or, indisputable facts -

all are younger than Adachinoryu :-)

all are taller than Adachinoryu (Arguing...)

all are heavier than Adachinoryu :-)

all are far far far less handsome than Adachinoryu B-)

but I get the feeling this isn't the answer you are looking for? :-P

ANR (Sign of approval)

Edited January 1, 2004 by Adachinoryu

[Fujisan 533]

I actually think I was right with my first guess-

It as certainly been nearly 20 years since all the Yokozuna and ozeki have belonged to 'different' Heya,let alone all the sanyaku wrestlers.

Think about it-

We did have Maru and Musoyama-

Before that we had the Taka/Waka connection,before that Akebono and Konishki and before that Hokutoumi and Chiyonofuji.

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

I actually think I was right with my first guess-

It as certainly been nearly 20 years since all the Yokozuna and ozeki have belonged to 'different' Heya,let alone all the sanyaku wrestlers.

Think about it-

We did have Maru and Musoyama-

Before that we had the Taka/Waka connection,before that Akebono and Konishki and before that Hokutoumi and Chiyonofuji.

Well, I say this, that if that is NOT what Asashosakari-san means, it's one hell of a coincidence, since it seems I also find exactly 3 basho before this one (since end of WWII) that has had all sanyaku from different stables (2 of which have been during the past 20 years btw). :-P

[Fujisan 533]

Thank you Yubi-

You have just confirmed what was no more than a rough guess on my part-

I expect the missing banzukes would be in the early 90s between Chiyonofujis retirement and Akebonos arrival in sanyaku-Am I right?

[Chiyozakura 163]

I don't think Akebono has anything to do with it as he never had a heya-mate in Sanyaku. Only in 2000 he had do-beya Takamisakari in Makuuchi with him for 1 1/2 basho. One of the cases with all Sanyaku from different Heya ist Hatsu 1992. Takahanada, Wakahanada and Akinoshima had fallen out of Sanyaku leaving only Takatoriki from Futagoyama. I have no idea about the other time during the last 20 years, though. At first there were Takanosato and Wakashimazu from Futagoyama and after Sato's retirement Hoshi/Hokutoumi had become a Sanyaku regular at Chiyonofuji's side. After Hatsu 1992 there have always been at least two Futagoyama guys for nearly ten years with Takanohana, Wakanohana, Takanonami, Akinoshima, Takatoriki, Wakashoyo, Naminohana, Misugisato and Takamisugi with the exception of Natsu 1992 when there were Konishiki and Mitoizumi from Takasago. When that stopped we had at least two Musashigawa guys with Musashimaru and Musoyama.

Edited January 1, 2004 by Chiyozakura

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

I don't think Akebono has anything to do with it as he never had a heya-mate in Sanyaku. Only in 2000 he had do-beya Takamisakari in Makuuchi with him for 1 1/2 basho. One of  the cases with all Sanyaku from different Heya ist Hatsu 1992. Takahanada, Wakahanada and Akinoshima had fallen out of Sanyaku leaving only Takatoriki from Futagoyama. I have no idea about the other time during the last 20 years, though. At first there were Takanosato and Wakashimazu from Futagoyama and after Sato's retirement Hoshi/Hokutoumi had become a Sanyaku regular at Chiyonofuji's side. After Hatsu 1992 there have always been at least two Futagoyama guys for nearly ten years with Takanohana, Wakanohana, Takanonami, Akinoshima, Takatoriki, Wakashoyo, Naminohana, Misugisato and Takamisugi with the exception of Natsu 1992 when there were Konishiki and Mitoizumi from Takasago. When that stopped we had at least two Musashigawa guys with Musashimaru and Musoyama.

Ah, but you actually missed one, unless I'm mistaken... 1993.01, the last basho where Fujishima and Futagoyama were split up, we had

Akebono (Azumazeki)

Konishiki (Takasago)

Takahanada (Fujishima)

Kotonishiki (Sadogatake)

Musashimaru (Musashigawa)

Kirishima (Idzutsu)

Daishoho (Tatsunami)

Takamisugi (Futagoyama)

Although I should probably let Asashosakari complete the list since he was the one bringing this to my and the lists attention, I'll still reveal that the third instance were way back in the 60s.

Edited January 1, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama

[Fujisan 533]

Just shows how much luck was involved with my guessing correctly because if you read my earlier post you will see I had it in my head Akebono and Konishiki where in the same heya,should have checked my facts first.

Despite that I still managed to be right about one of the times when the sanyaku where all in different heya,I said it was just after Chiyonofujis retirement.

[Asashosakari 20,222]

:-P to Fujisan for being the first to figure it out, and thanks to everyone else who tried. (Arguing...) Yeah, surprisingly there were two relatively recent occurances of this with Hatsu 1992 and Hatsu 1993, despite the strength of Fujishima-beya even before the merger with Futagoyama. The third case (and I hope Yubi-zeki found the same one, or we were both wrong with a count of three :-) ) was Kyushu 1968, with the following sanyaku:

Taiho (Nishonoseki) 

Edited January 1, 2004 by Asashosakari

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

The third case (and I hope Yubi-zeki found the same one, or we were both wrong with a count of three :-) ) was Kyushu 1968, with the following sanyaku:

Yep! :-P

Edited January 1, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama

[Kashunowaka 300]

Interesting that the situation has occurred so few times, and never twice in a row.

Looking at the current banzuke just below sanyaku, it gets even more interesting. Of the top 10 maegashira, only 3 have a heya-mate in sanyaku: M1E Toki and the two M5s Kakizoe and Kasuganishiki. The top 20 rikishi represent 15 different stables! This is more than either Kyushu 1968, Hatsu 1992 or Hatsu 1993.

So it doesn't seem unlikely that this situation will repeat itself in 2004 after Hatsu basho, perhaps already in Haru. Somehow I don't think Toki will be a sanyaku regular ... For a while I thought Takasago was going to be the next big thing in sumo after Musashigawa, but I am not so sure anymore.

Which heya will dominate next, then? Musashigawa can come back of course, they still have one ozeki, two ex-ozeki and some promising new sekitori. And they seem to be good at recruiting college champions, too. Neither of the other stables - Naruto, Sadogatake, Kasugano, Oshima etc. - seem to have enough good sekitori to reach critical mass at the moment.

[Fujisan 533]

Thanks Asashi-

It was a bit of luck really that brought it to mind but I still cant help feeling chuffed.(Pleased with myself)

[Asashosakari 20,222]

So it doesn't seem unlikely that this situation will repeat itself in 2004 after Hatsu basho, perhaps already in Haru. Somehow I don't think Toki will be a sanyaku regular ... For a while I thought Takasago was going to be the next big thing in sumo after Musashigawa, but I am not so sure anymore.

Which heya will dominate next, then? Musashigawa can come back of course, they still have one ozeki, two ex-ozeki and some promising new sekitori. And they seem to be good at recruiting college champions, too. Neither of the other stables - Naruto, Sadogatake, Kasugano, Oshima etc. - seem to have enough good sekitori to reach critical mass at the moment.

I still think that Takasago has the best odds, based on all their youngsters currently roaming Makushita and Sandanme, plus the Yokozuna bonus. But of course, they may all flame out before reaching Juryo, in which case my prediction becomes so much chopped liver. :-P

One heya to watch may be Irumagawa, with those promising youngsters Otsukasa and Yot...no, just kidding about those two. However, the stable appears to have a nice crop of reasonably young rikishi already high on the banzuke, namely Nadatsukasa (24 years, Ms4e), Surugatsukasa (23 years, Ms40e), Tokitsukasa (22 years...birthday today!, Ms53e), and Masatsukasa (19 years, just started in Hatsu 2003, Sd8e). I kind of doubt there's any Ozeki among them, but Irumagawa might find itself in a position in a few years like the one Kasugano has right now, i.e. a whole bunch of sekitori, but no real break-out star.

Kataonami doesn't look too bad either...while Tamakasuga and Tamarikido are likely on the slow way out, Tamanoshima still has a few good years ahead of him (and if the last basho is any indication, perhaps he'll surprise us with a Kyokutenho-like transformation to sanyaku regular), and they also have a few promising guys in Makushita and Sandanme right now.

Then there's darkhouse Matsugane if Harunoyama keeps improving, if Wakatoryu finds his old form again and if Korean Kimu lives up to the hype that surrounded his entry. Okay, maybe a few too many if's. :-D

Or perhaps Michinoku, with Kirinoumi (24, Ms15e), Kirinofuji (22, Ms20e last basho when he went 0-1-6, now Sd2e), Hakuba (20, Ms29e), and Kirinowaka (also 20, Ms50w). Plus Jumonji who should stick around for a while longer himself.

Takanowaka is Naruto's oldest rikishi (!) at only 27, which alone probably deserves a mention for such a big heya. Naruto is very Sandanme-heavy at the moment, which either means they still have a lot of upside due to their young ages, or that the majority of them is already stuck there, seeing as Sandanme seems to be the limit for many deshi. They've got Hagiwara though, only 17 and already Ms18e.

Up next, the current Makushita dominators, Sadogatake. Most of their Makushita rikishi have seen their 25th birthday already, but once Kotooshu and Kotoshogiku pass them by, maybe the others will feel inspired to catch up. :-) And Kotomitsuki should be able to provide a solid 'anchor' for the stable for some time to come.

Tokitsukaze is in a similar situation to Naruto, with sekitori Tokitsuumi and Shimotori, lots of young-ish Sandanme rikishi, a few talents who've been touted as future sekitori for quite a while already (Tokitenku, Toyonoshima), and the somewhat less heralded Toyonokuni who snuck all the way up to Ms3 with hardly anybody noticing just two basho ago. (Since then he's gone 2-5, 2-5 to drop him back to mid-Makushita...oh well.)

All that being said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if it takes several years until we get a dominant stable that even approaches the prominence that Musashigawa and Futagoyama had over the last deacde. But it's fun to look towards the lower divisions for some scouting from time to time. (In a state of confusion...)

Tokitsukaze, Sadogatake and Irumagawa would be my best, semi-informed guesses for powerful (although not necessarily dominating) stables in, say, 5 years. Plus Takasago on the strength of Asashoryu and Asasekiryu, and probably also Musashigawa, the latter most likely with 100% college rikishi at that point. :-D

And apologies for the long post, I got a little carried away here.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

Up next, the current Makushita dominators, Sadogatake. Most of their Makushita rikishi have seen their 25th birthday already, but once Kotooshu and Kotoshogiku pass them by, maybe the others will feel inspired to catch up.

(...)

And apologies for the long post, I got a little carried away here.

Ah, but a Koto is not ripe before 30. (In a state of confusion...) No need to apologize for an excellent summary. (Sign of approval)

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

Don't forget that only one foreign rikishi per heya is allowed nowadays. With the superior quality of young foreign rikishi over young Japanese rikishi this could mean diverse Sanyaku stables for years to come... unless Asasekiryu pulls himself together.

[Naganoyama 6,024]

...Lots of good stuff...

This is great. (Hugging...)

Here in the UK it is hard to get much insight into the up-and-coming talents.

Thanks for spending the time putting these thoughts together.