Musashigawa cautions Asashouryuu

[Kintamayama 45,534]

Musashigawa said he will warn Takasago Oyakata and Asashouryuu Akinori dono that if Asashouryuu persists with his undignified behaviour, he will be "dealt with" next time. This comes on the heels of some YDC members' direct complaints to the rijicho regarding Asa's "guts pose" after winning the yusho. Rijicho will be summoning Takasago this morning and giving him a hard talk. "If in the future something happens, I'll bring it up at the rijikai!! This concerns both of them of course!", said Rijicho. "I wonder what the Oyakata thinks when he sees his deshi going against the etiquette on the dohyo..It's not enough that he gets summoned by me and apologizes. As a leader that is totally insufficient", added the rijicho. "I intend to caution him personally, but it would be better if both of them came to apologize before he returned to Mongolia", he said of Asashouryuu.

[Fay 1,677]

I asked one Oyakata about the problems with Asashoryu. He said, Asashoryu makes one fault, his Oyakata a million ...

Edited January 28, 2009 by Fay

[Mark Buckton 1]

As opposed to bringing it up at the rijikai (which is more of a 'AOB' kind of issue), the rijicho actually said the board (of NSK directors) may have to meet (specificially) if ASA persists with his 'after it's over pushes' and the like.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Mark Buckton

[Kintamayama 45,534]

As opposed to bringing it up at the rijikai (which is more of a 'AOB' kind of issue), the rijicho actually said the board (of NSK directors) may have to meet (specificially) if ASA persists with his 'after it's over pushes' and the like.

Isn't the rijikai the board of NSK directors? If it isn't, what is the Japanese term for the board of NSK directors? Rijikai is the word the papers are using in three different instances.

Edit-Ohhh, I see what you mean, although the word "specific" or "special" is missing form the articles I read. Usually when that is the case (like in the Russians' dismissal and the hazing death) the word "special" is prominent.

This is what the story is all about Appropriate? Yokozuna-like? Who cares? It's natural? No place in Sumo? Lighten up?:

Edited January 28, 2009 by Kintamayama

[Jonosuke 28]

Say if Asashoryu lost to Kisenosato and if he's seen Kise do this, I bet he will be mighty upset.

But I suppose since he is an entertainer like a stand-up comedian asking for laughs from crowd after telling a joke or two, it should all fine and dandy.

But amid all criticisms, why persists? Why not say I had enough and get out? He hasn't.. Despite all that and whatever else Ozumo has given him far more than he's giving it and keeps giving to him so much that he won't. After all he said he loved Japan and is a yokozuna of Japan. He is not dumb, he knows where the next meal ticket is coming from.

From Uchdate to Yaku Mitsuru all called for his retirement but he stayed. Perhaps for him all these things are just little nuisances he lives with. He is seeing much bigger picture. He will hear Musashigawa out and apologizes and goes on. He won't let it bother him to affect his future performance.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Jonosuke

[sekitori 492]

This is what the story is all about Appropriate? Yokozuna-like? Who cares? It's natural? No place in Sumo? Lighten up?:

It may not be sumo protocol to show emotion when you win, but consider this. Virtually all of the so-called experts expected Asashoryu to at least go kyujo again after a few days and many even predicted that he would retire. Since he pulled off a "miracle" in winning the yusho, he would have to be a robot not to show how he felt after he won. I found his behavior under the circumstances to be quite reasonable. For the kyokai to warn him against showing his joy seems to be ridiculous. "Undignified" is a poor description of his behavior after the basho. "Acting very human" is a much better one. The kyokai may want an apology and to appease them, he may even give them one. But being Asashoryu, he won't mean it. The words "etiquette" and "Asashoryu" are complete opposites. :-)

[Coo-cook 0]

I wonder whether that hit by zabuton had anything to do with the 'pose'.

[Peeter 15]

I asked one Oyakata about the problems with Asashoryu. He said, Asashoryu makes one fault, his Oyakata a million ...

Answer to the One Oyakata - million oyakatas don't have one Asashoryu! :-)

[Mark Buckton 1]

common response to Asashoryu's 'ways' when speaking to Japanese who follow sumo the blame Asashio' route.

[Bilu 0]

In all this long debate about Asashoryu's behaviour, I still couldn't find an answer to a pretty basic question:

- Why is he doing it?

I mean, so many words written... But do we have a clue as to the arguably most important factor - Asa's motivation?

- Did he raise his hands because his emotions overtook him?

- Did he raise his hands becuase he feels that's better for Ozumo (better for the fans, etc).

- Did he raise his hands because he just wants to show the NSK (and everyone) he's doing it HIS way.

- [Your speculation here..]

The question of motivation is crucial and until we get an answer - this argument, in my view, is a bit crippled.

[Mark Buckton 1]

I think the answer is quite simple. He is selfish. The only person Asashoryu thinks about is Asashoryu when it comes to his 'job' for that is all sumo is - a job.

Love Japan, thanks to the fans......maybe he does feel that way - when he wins. I don't recall his expressions of joy, love and the like coming at other times.

I recall aiding 3 zabuton in their quest to reach the dohyo in Aki 04 when Futeno beat him on shonichi. Had Futeno reacted as Asa did (not as those zabuton did in suddenly jumping up and flying as if possessed) - do you think Asa would have let it be, only try and improve his own sumo so it didn't happen again ?

Or, would he GO AFTER Futeno in keiko?

Hak lost on Sunday and that will only make him stronger. He won't GO AFTER anyone - bar himself for losing.

[paolo 0]

First of all, Asashoryu is a fighter. He is what he is because of his will and determination inside and outside the dohyo: he has ever been smaller and lighter than most of the others, and he had to build himself a technique and a speed that allowed him to beat the pure power of the other people; differently from Hakuho for instance, he cannot wait and see, because in every single bout he can be in danger if he "stops and waits". He developed also a special "judo" attitude: if you attack me like this, I will answer this way, if you attack me that way, I will answer in that other way: he has an answer to most of his opponent's attacks. Even intimidating others is a "necessary" part of his game. All the above leads to the obvious conclusion: he must be very tense and concentrated all the time to give his best, and this was particularly seen in this basho for the well known reasons. And then, he can lose his contact with the rest of sumo: hence the extra shoves, the fists to the sky, the old story of getting the envelopes with his left because he is lefty, and so on. For him sumo is fighting, and fighting is winning... He for sure knows what sumo expects from him, but his main goal is winning. He is a yokozuna as far as the quality of results is concerned but he is certainly not a yokozuna in terms of the tradition of sumo. I would not put this is terms of "selfish": he wanted to win and not simply be a part of sumo world, and for sure he succeeded...

[Harry 67]

I wonder whether that hit by zabuton had anything to do with the 'pose'.

Actually, I sort of felt the same thing. People didn't just seem to be throwing in the "a yokozuna lost" zabuton, they seemed the be aiming right at Asashoryu and I wonder if some of his show was more a result of that. He got beaned by a few at least. Where were the new two part unthrowable zabuton? I guess some seats still use the single, throwable type.

Now, he certainly went on but it is who he is at this point. It looks a little contrived, the bad boy comes back, ticket sales are up, he wins but has no sumo etiquitte, they caution him, he is still the bad boy. The whole thing looks a little like an act to me, to be honest.

[James H 0]

Where were the new two part unthrowable zabuton?

Still in Fukuoka. The new design is only being used down there, for cost reasons, I was told by a fellow hack. All the zabutons at the Kokugikan were of the old, single, easily-throwable type.

[Blue_Wolf 24]

Say if Asashoryu lost to Kisenosato and if he's seen Kise do this, I bet he will be mighty upset.

I'm pretty sure if Kisenosato wins yusho by winning Asashoryu and do that celebration on dohyo, he will not have any problem with it.

Anyway why no one has any problem with Takamisakari's behaviour on the dohyo? I know he is not yokozuna and or winning yusho's but still he is Makuuchi veteran and also example to dozen other rikishi's. To me it looks really ridiculious, so is harm to sumo than raising your hands after winning yusho.

[Jonosuke 28]

Say if Asashoryu lost to Kisenosato and if he's seen Kise do this, I bet he will be mighty upset.

I'm pretty sure if Kisenosato wins yusho by winning Asashoryu and do that celebration on dohyo, he will not have any problem with it.

Oh he will have the problem just like Asashoryu.

I think I alluded before but Ozumo traces lot of its traditions and customs from Japanese Shinto religion. Ozumo considers its dohyo to be a sacred place as you can see from their Dohyo Matsuri ceremony they perform prior to its basho.

When a yokozuna does his dohyo-iri, have you ever wonder why he has those white paper stuff hanging from his Tsuna? Well if you've ever been to a shrine in Japan, you will see it for sure. Here's a picture of it from Wiki.

Basically if you behave in a manner agreeable to as if you enter into a church, synagogue or temple, you will not get in much of troubles. While it is a sport, Ozumo carries itself with quite a bit of religious significance whether you like it or not. So sometimes you need to be cognizant to that fact. I certainly will behave myself accordingly if I ever be so fortunate enough to be anywhere close to Burkhan Khaldun.

[Exil 301]

Moderator Notice

Account problem talk moved here.

[Shomishuu 0]

Anyway why no one has any problem with Takamisakari's behaviour on the dohyo? I know he is not yokozuna and or winning yusho's but still he is Makuuchi veteran and also example to dozen other rikishi's. To me it looks really ridiculious, so is harm to sumo than raising your hands after winning yusho.

Although it doesn't totally explain it, a very large distinction is made when it comes to behavior BEFORE the bout and AFTER it. A rikishi can show a lot of what could be regarded as disrespect in the pre-bout shikiri - glaring and the like. But when the bout is over, both winner and loser are expected to act with decorum.

Perhaps a more relevant comparison might be made between the pre-bout actions of Takamisakari and the retired Asanowaka. Asanowaka - as I recall - was told to cease throwing the salt baseball-style onto the dohyo just before the bout, while Takamisakari has never been 'counseled,' as far as I know.

Both men's displays were popular with the fans, and both are Japanese, of course.

[Kintamayama 45,534]

Musashigawa cautioned Takasago in person today."I told him to get serious and that if this happens again, bad things will happen,, "I may have been too soft with him,,I shall speak to Asashouryuu when he returns and caution him..", promised Takasago. Later, at the sumo school graduation ceremony, Takasago misread Musashigawa's first name, "Musashigawa..umm..ummm...How do you read this?" he asked the other bewildered Oyakata. "Akihide..", answered Futagoyama Oyakata." It's Akihide!!", added an irate Musashigawa, who then gave a sour smile.This already happened once to Takasago when he couldn't read Tomozuna's first name a while back

Edited January 30, 2009 by Kintamayama

[Johnofuji 232]

."I told him to get serious and that if this happens again, bad things will happen,, "I may have been too soft with him,,I shall speak to Asashouryuu when he returns and caution him..", promised Takasago.

Just like an unarmed policemen to the baddies he will have to say "stop ....or I will say stop again"

[Sasanishiki 57]

Where were the new two part unthrowable zabuton?

Still in Fukuoka. The new design is only being used down there, for cost reasons, I was told by a fellow hack. All the zabutons at the Kokugikan were of the old, single, easily-throwable type.

Does this not seem a little strange? The Kokugikan gets used for three basho a year, while Fukuoka only has one. Furthermore, Kyushu basho has small numbers and so, unless the crowd is rowdier, that doesn't seem to be a good use of a resource. Perhaps they should worry about getting more bums on the zabuton in Fukuoka rather than the risk that someone might throw them?

[Hananotaka 8]

Perhaps a more relevant comparison might be made between the pre-bout actions of Takamisakari and the retired Asanowaka. Asanowaka - as I recall - was told to cease throwing the salt baseball-style onto the dohyo just before the bout, while Takamisakari has never been 'counseled,' as far as I know.

Asanowaka was told to not throw the salt up and punch it. His whipping it into the ground was, IIRC, uncommented on.

[Jonosuke 28]

Asanowaka was told to not throw the salt up and punch it. His whipping it into the ground was, IIRC, uncommented on.

He was compared to a frog if I recall.

But what you know, he is a legit oyakata now, albeit with Takasago Beya.

But then so shall be Takamisakari, albeit with the same Ichimon.

Perhaps something to do with the whole Ichimon that may bring the best or worst of behavior.

I suppose it's not just rarefied air alone.

[Kintamayama 45,534]

Asashouryuu is back from Mongolia.He did not even know his shisho had been cautioned by the rijicho, (Asa performing the "shiranai" style dohyo-iri??). "I don't know anything about that. I should go to the KKan to meet the rijicho?? You go!!" said a short-fused Asa to a reporter.

But that's yesterday's news now. The Kyokai has more pressing issues to attend to right now.

"Wanna come with me to the KKan??"

Edited January 31, 2009 by Kintamayama

[Jonosuke 28]

Obviously when some one got busted by police, they have far higher priority than dealing with "Hinkaku" or graceful behavior. I doubt anyone is asking Asashoryu to go over to meet Musashigawa in person now. Unless they can put a blame on Asashoryu for Wakakirin's misdeed.

Edited January 31, 2009 by Jonosuke