Today's Victory!

[Jesinofuji 11]

(Blushing...) (Sign of approval) (Laughing...) (Laughing...) (Punk rocker...) (Laughing...) (Punk rocker...) (Applauding...)

And #4 today comes to Asashoryu! Thank the maker! This is wonderful, I mean this is really really awesome. Asashoryu has now won 4 of the last 6 tournaments! Will he continue winning all the time like this? I surely think so. cause he is still 22 and will get better still with time. An serious injury is the only thing that can possibly come in between him and Taiho's record! Victory for Asashoryu!!!

Asashoryu, Omedetto Gozaimasu!

[Kintamayama 47,140]

Henka, my man, henka (Sign of disapproval). As one Shouryuu fan to another, I am disappointed..

But.....

HE DID IT!!!

(Laughing...) (Laughing...) (Applauding...) (Sign of approval) (Laughing...)

[Naifuzan 1]

This is the first time I've seen shoryu do something like that. I had to watch the bout several times to believe it!

Not that bad anyway, imho, since we got a good bout to watch anyway.

That being said, let me join in the celebrations!

(Laughing...) (Laughing...) (Applauding...) (Sign of approval) (Blushing...) (Punk rocker...) (Laughing...)

[Jesinofuji 11]

Yeah, he did Henka. I am glad though that the henka didn't really work, and the match didn't end up being another half second bout with Chiyo lungeing foreward and immediately falling flat on his face. I'm glad that fans still got to see a great match. His back was hurting him, maybe that was a part of why he did it. Everyone does a henka at some point. It wasn't so Yokozuna-like, but winning his 4th Yusho sure was, and thats what's really important.

(Applauding...)

[Tumppi 0]

Yeah I was kinda disappointed when I saw the henka, I was hoping for a better bout. (Laughing...) (Laughing...)

Well, I guess Asa still deserves the yusho and it is/was a good basho. (Applauding...)

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

I suppose Chiyotaikai should be proud that so many goes for henka against him. It's obviously not very pleasant to go straight-forward against taikai. Personally I don't have much problem with shoryu using henka here. He should use his greater side-ways mobility to best effect and adapt to his own and his opponents condition, in my opinion.

(Laughing...)

Still, given the critique rikishi such as Musashimaru and Tochiazuma have gotten when using henka in yusho deciding bouts, I think Asashoryu shouldn't be let off the hook that easy. Given the standards set here by so many, Yokozunas shouldn't henka, period. And they should DEFINITELY not do it when in reasonable shape and to win the yusho. A very disappointing decision by Asashoryu, by those standards. (Applauding...)

Congratulations Asashoryu, but please keep your confidence and way of sumo when going up against real opposition too, in the future. It's not enough to be impressive against the likes of Toki and Kotoryu. (Being mellow...)

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

Everyone does a henka at some point.

FWIW, I'm willing to bet the history of ozumo knows someone who never committed a henka in his career. :-P

[Kintamayama 47,140]

Everyone does a henka at some point.

FWIW, I'm willing to bet the history of ozumo knows someone who never committed a henka in his career. :-P

David Beckham.

[Naifuzan 1]

Are you sure that the history of ozumo knows David Beckham? :-P

EDIT: I type like a monkey :-P

Edited September 20, 2003 by Naifuzan

[Jesinofuji 11]

Everyone does a henka at some point.

FWIW, I'm willing to bet the history of ozumo knows someone who never committed a henka in his career. :-P

I'll bet there is too really, but I think most have comitted it at some point. One that I have wondered about is Konishiki. Did he even have the ability to henka? Of course he could sidestep, but as big as he was would it ever make sense to even try? After seeing one well excecuted by Maru I'd think anything is possible, but does anybody know if Konishiki ever henkaed?

And what is the past tense for henka in English? :-P

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

And what is the past tense for henka in English? :-P

Well, since henka is mostly used as a noun in English, I'd say past tense isn't ;-)

Actually, it's hardly obvious what the present form would be either if henka is to be used as a verb :-P

EDIT: Yeah, Sanyaku here I come! (Punk rocker...)

Edited September 20, 2003 by Yubiquitoyama

[Furutakanohe 0]

There was a henka. So what? Chiyotaikai proved that henka is only a winning move when the rikishi isn't prepared to react to that legal move. I don't even think the yokozuna got an advantage from his henka. Really, it's not like he pulled hair. :-P

Edited September 20, 2003 by Furutakanohe

[Zentoryu 154]

It reminds me a bit of Akebono's henka against Takanohana during the Kyushu 2000 basho (Akebono's last tournament and final Yusho).

I did a review of his bouts that tournament and this is some of what I wrote for it:

We have a huge surprise at the Tachi-ai as Akebono actually henka

[Hashira 0]

the thing that bothers me most about this henka is that it was not necessary. if asashoryu lost, he would have still been tied for the lead. it was not a lose and die situation for the yokozuna, and therefore, in my opinion, should not have been so willing to henka. even though it is a legal move, and i am not as strongly against the henka move as are many other people, i believe that there is a time for it. in this case, the time was not good. it served to ruin the chance for fans to see a meaningful final day. it would seem to me that the yokozuna, already disliked in japan, would not want to do henka at a time like this, further destroying his popularity. i'm sure the YDC didn't like it, even if they don't say anything publicly.

[Iwagakki 0]

Henka, Schmenka.

Come on, it's just a dumb henka. Happens ALL the time. Takanohana did it, Musashimaru did it. Kitanoumi did it. Chiyonofuji did it. Raiden did it. Everyone did it.

Sure it's a little curious when the "Mr Perfect in a mawashi" does it, whoever that is at the moment, but it's a part of the game. It's not that big a deal, and its certainly not something so important that people need to get all bitchy about it.

that other thread about Tochiazuma and his henka was absurd, and at least one person was taking it way too personally-getting all bent out of shape, and freaking out on anyone who disagreed.

I mean, come on--What's up with that? Is your life so meaningless and without perspective that you have to get so serious about a stupid Henka that has nothing at all to do with you? How petty.

Instead of arguing the semantics of something that will never, ever have anything to do with you personally...not to mention getting personal and offensive about it, why don't you get some semblance of self control, perspective and respect for others, and get on with your life?

When you have someone pull a henka on you in the Kokugikan on the 13th day of the basho, then I will be happy to accept your opinion about Henka. Until then, such arguments do little but to make the conversation about a shared interest less enjoyable.

[Hashira 0]

When you have someone pull a henka on you in the Kokugikan on the 13th day of the basho, then I will be happy to accept your opinion about Henka. Until then, such arguments do little but to make the conversation about a shared interest less enjoyable.

i agree with what you say about people shouldn't take it too personally, or let it affect our lives, and i doubt that anyone seriously does that. But using your above logic, this entire forum has no reason to exist. since none of us have personally experienced sumo, we should not have an opinion about it? should we also not have an opinion about the referee in a world cup final, or world leaders committing genocide, since we have never been in their shoes?

we are fans, and we have every reason to have an emotional opinion about a sport we love

[Jesinofuji 11]

When you have someone pull a henka on you in the Kokugikan on the 13th day of the basho, then I will be happy to accept your opinion about Henka. Until then, such arguments do little but to make the conversation about a shared interest less enjoyable.

i agree with what you say about people shouldn't take it too personally, or let it affect our lives, and i doubt that anyone seriously does that. But using your above logic, this entire forum has no reason to exist. since none of us have personally experienced sumo, we should not have an opinion about it? should we also not have an opinion about the referee in a world cup final, or world leaders committing genocide, since we have never been in their shoes?

we are fans, and we have every reason to have an emotional opinion about a sport we love

Words of wisdom, words of wisdom.

This is a Sumo forum, were supposed to give our opnions of sumo. Right?

Until then, such arguments do little but to make the conversation about a shared interest less enjoyable.

If you disagree with someones opinion thats fine. If you can only enjoy conversation with people whose opinions are just like your not going to enjoy using web porums or talking to people very much.

When you have someone pull a henka on you in the Kokugikan on the 13th day of the basho

It was day 14 silly.

I mean, come on--What's up with that? Is your life so meaningless and without perspective that you have to get so serious about a stupid Henka that has nothing at all to do with you? How petty.

This is an unnessesary personal attack. This is what makes a "conversation about a shared interest less enjoyable".

[Kashunowaka 300]

When you have someone pull a henka on you in the Kokugikan on the 13th day of the basho

It was day 14 silly.

I mean, come on--What's up with that? Is your life so meaningless and without perspective that you have to get so serious about a stupid Henka that has nothing at all to do with you? How petty.

This is an unnessesary personal attack. This is what makes a "conversation about a shared interest less enjoyable".

Jesinofuji, you are not making things any better by responding to a perceived personal attack with another (calling someone "silly").

[Jesinofuji 11]

When you have someone pull a henka on you in the Kokugikan on the 13th day of the basho

It was day 14 silly.

I mean, come on--What's up with that? Is your life so meaningless and without perspective that you have to get so serious about a stupid Henka that has nothing at all to do with you? How petty.

This is an unnessesary personal attack. This is what makes a "conversation about a shared interest less enjoyable".

Jesinofuji, you are not making things any better by responding to a perceived personal attack with another (calling someone "silly").

I didn't mean any serious offense by that. I called him silly thats all, no biggie. I apologize if your offendedby that iwagaki. But calling someone silly and telling someone thier life is menaingless or saying " some semblance of self control, perspective and respect for others, and get on with your life" or the rest of the stull up there are on totally totally different levels. Its was probably a typo anyways, saying the 13th.

But what this thread should really be about is: Asashoryu just beat Kaio. :-P Thats 13 wins and a real Yokozuna worthy Yusho! :-D Asashoryu is GREAT!, he's AWESOME!, he really really brings meaning to the word YOKOZUNA and to Sumo itself,

THANK YOU ASASHORYU!!!

:-P (Punk rocker...) ;-) :-D :-)

[Ryunokaze 0]

Its all sumo.It`s all good I reckon.

I`ll leave the detail to the self appointed experts.

All the best :-P

Edited September 21, 2003 by Ryunokaze

[Asashosakari 20,203]

I`ll leave the detail to the self appointed experts.

You know, for somebody who says he's just here to share his opinion and discuss about sumo without getting into any fights, you're sure trying hard to make the rest of us feel bad about sharing ours. Just saying...

Shame you killed your first post responding to Zentoryu in the SumoTalk thread earlier today, that one was a keeper. :-P

Edited September 21, 2003 by Asashosakari

[Jesinofuji 11]

Can't we all just get along? :'-(

Edited September 21, 2003 by Jesinofuji

[Onnagumo 4]

:-P :-P Come on guys, please don't fight..... pleeeeease let's just have fun again like it used to be...... (Grouphug)

[Ryunokaze 0]

Asashosakari, Are you still going on about that P.M. thing...boring.

I killed that post because on reflection it was childish and would only cause problems.It aids me not, or anybody else to bicker.

All the best. :-P

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

Raiden did it.

(...)

I mean, come on--What's up with that? Is your life so meaningless and without perspective that you have to get so serious about a stupid Henka that has nothing at all to do with you? How petty.

(...)

Instead of arguing the semantics of something that will never, ever have anything to do with you personally...not to mention getting personal and offensive about it, why don't you get some semblance of self control, perspective and respect for others, and get on with your life?

Assuming you're referring to me.

Did Raiden henka? I don't know. He might have. Hopefully not. I doubt, however, that you don't know answer to that question, either. Even if he did, does henka become any worse for those who are convinced there is no honour in henka? Does henka become more acceptable just because some historical rikishi might have used it?

Yes, I'm a human failure. A proverbial loser in just about any yardstick you can imagine. (And I'm writing this only to assure you're correct in your assumptions; no ulterior motives here.) My crime is that I care about sumo. To figure out what's right and wrong in whatever happens on a clay ring 10 000 kilometres away, I have only my own judgment to lean on. If I happen to dislike henka intensively, it's my own matter. The importance I place on this matter is also that of my own. Where else do I discuss about it if not here? Is it wrong to actually have an opinion about something?

I'm sorry there's no ignore function in this script (as far as I know). If there were, you could easily skip my semantic drivel. So now you have to either do it manually or go to discuss about henka and its lack of importance somewhere else.

I have no life. The whole Internet sumo community knows that. Therefore I will go on calling henka for what it is according to my judgment clouded by my passion to sumo. Now it's up to you to decide what you're going to do with that fact. I'm not holding you here. Neither am I pushing you away. It's for you to decide what to do with petty henka haters.