Wakanoho and the Utchari

[yamaneko 2]

Thought id make a new wakanoho "and the" thread.

Wakanoho started well this basho, but fell to another utchari today. Whats that, like losing by utchari 2 out of his last 10 bouts or so? Cant be that common.

I hope wakanho can show better sumo. He is uber hakurozanish lately with his initial thrust and then slap down try, and losing by utchari twice in a short time shows lack of finishing technique as well.

[aderechelsea 125]

lost to Shirononami by utchari last basho too ... :-)

(lower the hips already !!!!)

[aderechelsea 125]

He also had an utchari loss in Hatsu against Ryuho.

3-basho in a row .... this must be a record !!!!

[yamaneko 2]

Did wakanoho grow? i dont remember him being 195cm. Maybe im mistaken.

He won again today, although might be a stepping aside victory again looking at the kimarite. Ill have to check the video if there ever is one.

[aderechelsea 125]

he was listed 193 cm last year. This could be a mistake in the measuring though. I've seen again rikishi "grow" and then "shrink" between annual measurings ... (Sigh...)

anyway ... he is just 19 years old .... he COULD be still growing.

(cannot comment on the bout as there was no stream at that point)

[yamaneko 2]

Wonder if wakanoho has firmly left the wall behind him now. His winning techniques havent really said that, but at least hes winning, and almost no doubt will get a better record than his first juryo stint.

Im curious to see if he faces baruto. Baruto wont be able to just overpower him with brute strength with his injury, and at the same time, i doubt a one hit then slap down try would work on baruto. The only other time they met in a makushita kettei sen last year was a great bout. Safe to say we will NOT see an utchari in that bout. :)

[bulsara 0]

Lets hope they meet again and considering their positions in banzuke they surely will.

On Day 4 Baruto was ousting 170 kg Daimanazuru and he actually looks more powerful than ever. Should be a great match though. (Laughing...)

[yamaneko 2]

The embarrasing kimarites continue! He loses by fumidashi. Pretty much all of his wins and losses have not shown a power sumo technique by him. Slap downs, rear push outs, utchari, and now an inadvertent step out. Well im just happy hes still over .500......for now.

[aderechelsea 125]

i would love to see what the hell did he do today.....

that fumidashi loss sounds "promising" ...(Sigh...)

[Guest elzumo]

Tomorrow will we see Wakanoho and Baruto against each other. Baruto has been very solid despite his wrapped knee. Most probably bigger man wins and as tradition so far with yorikiri.

[aderechelsea 125]

my bet is on Baruto but not only because he is bigger. He is a more "polished" rikishi compared to Wakanoho and he WAS in high Makuuchi a couple of times.

too bad that we won't see this one because the stream starts late every day, but anyway .... i have no high hopes for a great show.

[Gacktoh 0]

my bet is on Baruto but not only because he is bigger. He is a more "polished" rikishi compared to Wakanoho and he WAS in high Makuuchi a couple of times.

Yes, my bet is on Baruto as well, and I am more interested in Kimarite. (Clapping wildly...)

By the way, i've heard from one of my friends who watchted Day5 Wakanohou's torikumi, Wakanoho was injured. any news ?

Edited May 17, 2007 by Gacktoh

[yamaneko 2]

Any guess on the kimarite?

Ill go with a yorikiri baruto win again i guess, or a hatakikomi wakanoho win

[Kaikitsune Makoto 210]

I am very surprised that Wakanoho gets so much credit that he is considered a viable foe for Baruto who is in his own class in juryo and Wakanoho certainly isn't. Wakanoho was make-koshi last time and didn't excel in makushita either, has now beaten mainly off-form rikishi or has used his slapdown. I don't understand how Wakanoho could stand a chance against Baruto realistically as Wakanoho's best sumo is power sumo and do you think he has any chance against Baruto in power sumo? I seriously doubt Wakanoho can sidestep Baruto or slap him down. Fumidashi is an odd kimarite. Isamiashi is totally different and fumidashi could indeed suggest there was some injury but nobody has commented yet. Fumidashi isn't a "almost won but stepped out!"-process so doesn't mean Wakanoho was in control in any way but would help alot if someone would describe the bout....

When it comes to Baruto it is interesting to see how he deals with Toyohibiki's charge and Goeido's speed on the belt (despite 1-4 Goeido can still get even 9-6). Also genki Mokonami, Kitazakura are interesting foes for him. So far a lot of banale foes in many ways.

O3 looks fine. He was outskilled by Aminishiki whose tawara defense was incredibly good again, he failed utterly against Osh and had a good bout against Kise. Long way to kachi koshi but decent chance for sure. He doesn't lack much but just a bit for now at this height.

Sakaizawa's first loss was a bit silly and more like getting fooled by clever move to unexpected direction by foe, didn't see his shitatenage loss nor oshitaoshi win against Hoshihikari but probably holds him own more than well at Ms1 and should have a good chance to go 4-3 at least.

[Kotonosato 1]

The embarrasing kimarites continue! He loses by fumidashi. Pretty much all of his wins and losses have not shown a power sumo technique by him. Slap downs, rear push outs, utchari, and now an inadvertent step out. Well im just happy hes still over .500......for now.

Unlike the Mongolians, the Europeans don't seem to come into ozumo with a natural feel for technique. I think these problems are just growing pains. His technique is still a bit sloppy, but he and his oyakata will work them out over the next few basho. I'm sure he'll progress in a manner similar to Kotooshu, or more likely Kokkai.

You've got to hand it to Shironami, though. That was the most beautiful utchari ozumo has seen since the 1960s!

[yamaneko 2]

Funny thing is, we for a long time had the wakanoho and the wall thread going, and it seemed like forever it took him to heat the wall. But when he hit it, he hit it bad. Even though hes got a KK again, it was very borderline, and it seems like his progress continues to have hit a wall, perhaps his technique even has regressed a little bit. When i watched makushita videos of him, i didnt see such hakurozan kyokushuzan (old days) (lack of) technique and lack of forward moving sumo.

With baruto not at 100% this might be his only shot at beating him for a long time.

[Asashosakari 20,290]

When i watched makushita videos of him, i didnt see such hakurozan kyokushuzan (old days) (lack of) technique and lack of forward moving sumo.

I don't think that's so surprising. Lack of technique (or any other shortcoming, really) tends to be clearly exposed only when the opponents are capable enough to exploit it, and/or had enough time to look for the holes. Now that they've seemingly done so, it's up to Wakanoho to adjust in turn. In fact, he's probably doing so already, it's just that the adjustment he's chosen (less forward movement, more Hokutori-ish pulling) isn't working too well for him.

Edited May 17, 2007 by Asashosakari

[Koneko 0]

Unlike the Mongolians, the Europeans don't seem to come into ozumo with a natural feel for technique.

Interesting. Why is that, do you think? Of the posts I've read here many agree with you - and they're probably right. But I haven't seen an explanation for why this is so. Many of the European rikishi have a history in greek-roman wrestling, could this have something to do with it? Or is it the quality of their european coaches, the age of the wrestlers when they start serious training, or...what?

Maybe this has been discussed before, if so I haven't seen it. (Sign of approval...) But now that I've had a few drinks (our national day today, er, yesterday) I've found the courage to ask...

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

As to the Mongolian/European difference in "natural feel" for sumo, a likely explanation seems that Mongolian wrestling more closely resembles sumo. Greco-Roman habits may be more detrimental to doing good sumo than habits picked up through Korean wrestling, Mongolian wrestling, or other combative traditions in Asia.

Mongolian rikishi sometimes get criticized for using techniques from their native sport, but at least those techniques often fall within the rules of sumo, in contrast to "Western" wrestling.

[Koneko 0]

As to the Mongolian/European difference in "natural feel" for sumo, a likely explanation seems that Mongolian wrestling more closely resembles sumo. Greco-Roman habits may be more detrimental to doing good sumo than habits picked up through Korean wrestling, Mongolian wrestling, or other combative traditions in Asia.

Mongolian rikishi sometimes get criticized for using techniques from their native sport, but at least those techniques often fall within the rules of sumo, in contrast to "Western" wrestling.

Thank you for replying, Otokonoyama! Makes sense. *nods*

[aderechelsea 125]

Unlike the Mongolians, the Europeans don't seem to come into ozumo with a natural feel for technique.

Interesting. Why is that, do you think?

Greco-Roman wrestling helps you little (if any) when it comes to Sumo. The only thing that it gives you is power and fighting mentality. it's techniques are mostly ground-based and the throws are not feasible in Sumo. I think the bad habits you obtain from this style (like pulling, the leg positioning and the back-pedaling) are far more and worse than the benefits you get from your "wrestling past".

Mongolians usually have a wrestling backround but their style is more or less like sumo, or it can be evolved easily into sumo. I would say the same for the traditional turkish wrestlers but we never had a rikishi from there....

[Koneko 0]

I think the bad habits you obtain from this style (like pulling, the leg positioning and the back-pedaling) are far more and worse than the benefits you get from your "wrestling past".

Makes sense then, that guys who aren't trained in greco-roman wrestling seems to do as good as those who aren't (thinking of Akebono [or was it Konishiki], which if IIRC, had his background in basketball).

Then what sport would you reccomend for someone thinking 'bout sumo (amateur or pro)? Judo, perhaps? Yes, I know, I'm going seriously (Sign of approval...) here, but you know, while I dare to ask... (Whistling...)

Maybe I should start a thread of my own to ask these questions. *is shy* (Sorry. I'm shitface drunk, so if I'm not making sense I appologize. Talk about making a good first impression. *laughs*)

Edited May 18, 2007 by Koneko

[aderechelsea 125]

judo again gives you a lot of bad habits.

Actually there are a few rikishi with judo backround (like the Yokozuna) but they all quit it before these habits got irrevocable.

sumo is so simple to start with that it would be the best choice to commence your wrestling "career". Everything else makes you stray from your target.

[Koneko 0]

sumo is so simple to start with that it would be the best choice to commence your wrestling "career". Everything else makes you stray from your target.

*nods* Understand what you mean. Unfortunately there's not much choice around here for my son (who's genuinely interested in learning more about sumo). I'll search and see if I can find more info, so I won't take no more room here than necessary). (Sign of approval...) Thank you for the info, AdereChelsea!

[bulsara 0]

Any guess on the kimarite?

Ill go with a yorikiri baruto win again i guess, or a hatakikomi wakanoho win

Baruto won and yorikiri it was... his 6th in a row (Sign of approval...)