Nihongo - Japanese

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

This drives me nuts! Somebody must step forward immediately and tell what is the damn word that means something like "feeling of melancholy/calm/reverence/humbleness when realising the size of the universe and the power of nature" when for example listening to rain storm at night in a dark living room?? Japanese has that word...I forgot it and can't find it. It is quite short word I think. WHAT IS IT?????????

[Harry 67]

I couldn't think of one offhand so I tried looking things up and may have overthought it but here is what I came up with, perhaps something will ring a bell?:

天心　てんしん tenshin: providence (god's plan in the universe)

現実感 げんじつかん genjitsukan: perception of reality

宇宙観 うちゅうかん uchuukan: spactacle of the cosmos

気宇広大 きうこうだい kiukoudai: magnanimous, big-hearted

八紘一宇 はっこういちう hakkouichiu: universal brotherhood

If none of those, can you remember anything about it? A character, a radical, beginning or ending?

[Amanogawa 79]

畏敬　ikei ..　畏怖　ifu ... 　謙虚 kenkyo

It can be 哀愁 though, if focused on "melancholy" part.

[Harry 67]

Earlier I didn't mention these two as they are JUST for melancholy, depression but in case they rings bells there are kiutsu and kiutsusho 気鬱　気鬱症 but I really don't think they are what you want as they are usually associate with mental illness, not awe of the universe. Similarly I think the words above are more focused on single parts of what you're looking for, awe, humility and melancholy. Perhaps we haven't quite got it yet...

[Jonosuke 28]

Since I really don't know what context you are using it but I will keep it simple and a poet in me says it is "ささやか"

(Sasayaka). Often used with something with another word to describe a humble pleasure or happiness like "ささやかな幸せ".

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

KM's description seems fairly close to how Carl Sagan used "an experience of the numinous..." http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=numinous.

Plugging "numinous" into an online dictionary (eijiro) gives this:

〔アニミズムの〕霊の、神の

霊魂｛れいこん｝が宿った、〔霊によって〕神秘的｛しんぴ てき｝な力を得た

〔精神｛せいしん｝が〕高揚｛こうよう｝した、崇高｛すうこう｝な

http://eow.alc.co.jp/numinous/UTF-8/?ref=sa

Back to KM, Amanogawa, and Jonosuke...is this in the ballpark?

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

Thanks for the suggestions. Still, the word I was thinking is not any of those. Not sure if my word is even real. Can't remember where I saw that. Will let you know if I find it still...

[Sasanishiki 57]

It is not something like "sabi" is it...

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

I never found the word again but shouganai.

Lets proceed a bit again in nihongo studies or presentation or whatever is the suitable term.

Threat is common in the world between people, nations, animals and so on. You can threaten people well with odosu, obiyakasu/odokasu and kyouhaku suru verbs. The kanji meaning "threat" is cool.

脅

It has three power kanji and moon (flesh). It is kind of nice and easy to remember.

I haven't used these words much at all so am not sure about the different nuances of the verbs. People who master Japanese could offer some thoughts. I did a google experiment with "tanin wo X" replacing the X with each of those verbs.

Results:

Tanin wo odosu = 151 000 hits

Tanin wo obiyakasu/odokasu (both same kanji) = 294 000

Tanin wo kyouhaku suru = 1 250 000

So all used but kyouhaku seems most frequent. "Tanin" means "other people". 他人を脅す。。他人を脅かす。。他人を脅迫する

[Asashosakari 19,726]

Results:

Tanin wo odosu = 151 000 hits

Tanin wo obiyakasu/odokasu (both same kanji) = 294 000

Tanin wo kyouhaku suru = 1 250 000

I believe you need to use quotation marks for kanji text just like in western-language Google searches, or you'll get non-fitting search results like these. With quotes, the frequencies look quite a bit differently: 8,800 /14,500 / 2,600.

[Harry 67]

No matter what the topic I love to talk about Japanese...

It is unfortunate that the simplified versions of flesh niku 肉 and moon tsuki 月 both look like the moon and are both categorized using the same radical 月 under the modern 79 radical system while niku 肉 is categorized under the 人 hito person radical!; under the old 214 radical system (http://www.nuthatch.com/kanji/demo/radicals.html), all the characters containing the simplified 肉 are flesh based, not moon based. Also funny is that armpit, side, flank, supporting role 脇 waki (used in sekiwaki/sekiwake 関脇 but powerful flesh?) is the moon/flesh 月 radical with three power chikara 力 to the right while threaten 脅す odosu is based upon the power chikara 力 radical even though the moon/flesh 月 radical seems to be more prominent at the bottom. Ah well, that's Chinese for you! It is interesting because some computer chinese input systems allow you to choose characters by component while Japanese only lets you type the reading in kana or romaji; in many ways I find it easier to remember in the chinese way.

I must say I read a lot of manga concerning fighting but I almost never see the odosu 脅す verb. In fact, I can't recall having seen it recently but I see 脇 fairly frequently. I will look out for it now but I wonder if it is not in common usage?

The other triple-power kanji to remeber is 協 kyou cooperation (juu 十 ten plus 三力, the power of 10 times 3 is cooperation).

Edited April 5, 2008 by Harry

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

I believe you need to use quotation marks for kanji text just like in western-language Google searches, or you'll get non-fitting search results like these. With quotes, the frequencies look quite a bit differently: 8,800 /14,500 / 2,600.

Yes of course. I actually tried some other sentence like "Asashouryuu ni odosareta" but as it didn't give any results I thought it doesn't work for some reason....

So kyouhaku suru isn't that used but it gave so many hits due to noun nature of "kyouhaku".

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

I must say I read a lot of manga concerning fighting but I almost never see the odosu 脅す verb. In fact, I can't recall having seen it recently but I see 脇 fairly frequently. I will look out for it now but I wonder if it is not in common usage?

The other triple-power kanji to remeber is 協 kyou cooperation (juu 十 ten plus 三力, the power of 10 times 3 is cooperation).

But that 脇 kanji is not related to any verb that describes threatening. I am still wondering what threathen word is used mostly in casual speech in Japanese and are there nuance differences a a lot.

[Harry 67]

Those appear to be the main actual verbs for threaten. That doesn't mean they are in common usage. Odosu 脅す seems to be the casual way of saying it while kyouhaku suru 脅迫する is very formal. You can also carry out a threat odoshi o kaketa 脅しを掛けた.

Remember too that odosu has another kanji form 威す which is also used as 威嚇 ikaku as in 威嚇する. Or singly as 威 i.

Other ways of saying it may be endanger 危うくする ayauku suru, danger 危険 kiken, threatening words 脅し文句 odoshimonku, menace 脅威 kyoui as in 脅威を与える kyoui o ataeru, threaten or blackmail 恐喝, and related awful 恐ろしい osoroshii.

[Hananotaka 8]

I must say I read a lot of manga concerning fighting but I almost never see the odosu 脅す verb. In fact, I can't recall having seen it recently but I see 脇 fairly frequently. I will look out for it now but I wonder if it is not in common usage?

The other triple-power kanji to remeber is 協 kyou cooperation (juu 十 ten plus 三力, the power of 10 times 3 is cooperation).

But that 脇 kanji is not related to any verb that describes threatening. I am still wondering what threathen word is used mostly in casual speech in Japanese and are there nuance differences a a lot.

脅 and 脇 are actually related verbs that come from the same idea. The 月 represents 肉 flesh, and the 3 力, arranged as they are, represent the power of the hands "sandwiching" (はさむ) the power of the body. From the sense of "clamping down" on someone, of "sandwiching" them with threats of force, the kanji took on the meaning of threaten, intimidate. In Japan, 脇 came to be used to represent the point where the arms "sandwich" the body (the armpit, later to also mean "side"), while 脅 was used to represent the "sandwich" (はさむ) action. The 脇 character doesn't exist in Chinese. Or rather, it exists only as the kanji 脅.

The etymology of 協, incidently, is that the 3 力 represent three distinct strengths/forces, and the 十 represents 十印（ひとまとめ）, a symbol of "grouping together".

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

s that come from the same idea. The 月 represents 肉 flesh, and the 3 力, arranged as they are, represent the power of the hands "sandwiching" (はさむ) the power of the body. From the sense of "clamping down" on someone, of "sandwiching" them with threats of force, the kanji took on the meaning of threaten, intimidate. In Japan, 脇 came to be used to represent the point where the arms "sandwich" the body (the armpit, later to also mean "side"), while 脅 was used to represent the "sandwich" (はさむ) action. The 脇 character doesn't exist in Chinese. Or rather, it exists only as the kanji 脅.

The etymology of 協, incidently, is that the 3 力 represent three distinct strengths/forces, and the 十 represents 十印（ひとまとめ）, a symbol of "grouping together".

Cool stuff. Thanks for that. I have to start honing my Japanese threatening skills now. Odosanaide! Odoshitara bukkkkorosu!!! and less violent: odosanaide kudasai, boku ha tada no sumoUfan desu kara neeeeeeee...

[Harry 67]

脅し used in context, with respect to sumo even!

http://sports.yahoo.co.jp/hl?c=sumo&a=...0000014-ykf-spo

The headline is 松浪副大臣“脅し”も相撲改革肩すかし…

Later on as well: しかし、脅しの効果は疑問。

Not quite the threat of bodily harm you might have hoped for, however.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Harry

[Jonosuke 28]

Later on as well: しかし、脅しの効果は疑問。

Not quite the threat of bodily harm you might have hoped for, however.

In this article's context, no bodily harm threatened or perceived.

It simply meant that Minister Matsunami called for a meeting with the chairman, threatening to force the reforms but instead got a "Kata-sukashi" from the Kyokai, implying the Kyokai and Kitanoumi smartly sidestepped and pulled him down, never facing him squarely, head-on.

Just play on the words of Odoshi and Katasukashi, concoct ed by the newspaper editor.

[Harry 67]

I realize that. I merely meant that the original poster mentioned wanting to know how Japanese people say they are threatening each other with bodily harm.

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

http://www.nhk.or.jp/r-news/

A good way to have daily dose of more formal Japanese. For example listening to 3pm news every day gives 10 minutes of good Japanese exposure and quite wide vocabulary exposure too. Of course nowadays it is very easy to find Japanese stuff online at youtube of other similar sites so it is all up to motivation dake.

[Murakami 0]

Japanese language is one of the languages I've always wanted to learn but never had the opportunity and time to do so. Anyway, I'd like to share a funny incident involving Japanese language.

There was this Mongolian girl named Mongoljin who went to study at a Japanese university. Being a newbie in Japanese as she was at the time, at first she never quite understood why everybody was asking her name again and again. Some of them gave her exasperated look everytime she told them her name. She was saying 'watashiwa mongorujin', 'watashiwa mongorujin', 'mongorujin', 'mongoorujin!' all the time. (In a state of confusion...)

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

I think funny. Laugh happen. Be funny.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mSm5VNoBnew

[Jonosuke 28]

Actually the above is taken more or less from a skit by comedy duo called Ramens.

Here's

The one came from their Japanese Language School Asian skit.

They also have African version,

Italian,

French.

But for me their series of Japan's Wonderland [Alice],

,

and

are incredible funny.