slt 9 Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) Way to go Osh... a henka against the only potential "rival" to Asa this basho. Now, I have nothing against henka, as I've said many times before, but sometimes it's just bad taste. It also makes me laugh when I think of the dirty look Kotooshu gave to Ama on day 8, after he fell for the henka. Edited January 17, 2007 by slt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shimpu 0 Posted January 17, 2007 He looks like Roho... Three pure henkas this basho - Kisenosato, Dejima and now Chiyotaikai. Pathetic.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 47,232 Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) No henka- ( a henka is not good "because it robs the paying spectators of a real bout")- a slight shift to the right, getting the mawashi, neutralizing the one-trick pony, and getting KK. Nothing remotely like the blatant henkas (which are good) he did in the previous bouts. Excellent Osh! Now, the yusho! The dogs bark but the convoy passes! So a few Kyokai guys and many forumers will grumble and moan. I still say nobody cares. Taikai, as an avid Ozeki and long time veteran, should know better. Anyone who follows sumo for 3 months knew that Osh will shift and go for the belt. But Taikai is Taikai-he only knows one way. Take that away, and he is Kokkai. Edited January 17, 2007 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,259 Posted January 17, 2007 No henka- a slight shift to the right, A henka is a henka, there are slight and blunt ones. Doesn't change the fact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 125 Posted January 17, 2007 No henka- ( a henka is not good "because it robs the paying spectators of a real bout")- a slight shift to the right, getting the mawashi, neutralizing the one-trick pony, and getting KK. Nothing remotely like the blatant henkas (which are good) he did in the previous bouts.Excellent Osh! Now, the yusho! The dogs bark but the convoy passes! So a few Kyokai guys and many forumers will grumble and moan. I still say nobody cares. Taikai, as an avid Ozeki and long time veteran, should know better. Anyone who follows sumo for 3 months knew that Osh will shift and go for the belt. But Taikai is Taikai-he only knows one way. Take that away, and he is Kokkai. change "Kintamayama" with "aderechelsea" and you have my opinion on record too .... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 47,232 Posted January 17, 2007 No henka- a slight shift to the right, A henka is a henka, there are slight and blunt ones. Doesn't change the fact. I agree. So, any move that isn't totally head-on is a henka, right? Is a tachi-ai harite a henka of sorts? It isn't a head- on contact and it gives the guy who does it an advantage. Never saw anyone moan about that..Or nekodamashi. It is regarded as "cool" in some circles. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shimpu 0 Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) Someone doesn't care about henka someone does but three henka per basho is a little overdose for an ozeki, isn't it? Edited January 17, 2007 by Shimpu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iwokayama 0 Posted January 17, 2007 Someone doesn't care about henka someone does but three henka per basho is a little overdose for an ozeki, isn't it? I see only one henka from Osh agains Kakizoe. Another two looks like a henka because Osh i over 2 meter tall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 125 Posted January 17, 2007 change "Kintamayama" with "aderechelsea" We can't.....he doesn't like feta. i knew he was weird ..... ;-) :-P Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 6,394 Posted January 17, 2007 I see only one henka from Osh agains Kakizoe. That was indeed the mother of all henkas! Osh wasn't even there at the tachiai... ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hananotaka 8 Posted January 17, 2007 No henka- a slight shift to the right, A henka is a henka, there are slight and blunt ones. Doesn't change the fact. I agree. So, any move that isn't totally head-on is a henka, right? Is a tachi-ai harite a henka of sorts? It isn't a head- on contact and it gives the guy who does it an advantage. Never saw anyone moan about that..Or nekodamashi. It is regarded as "cool" in some circles. Come now, my friend, with your Japanese skills surely you know that "kawaru" and "henka" in Japanese, particularly in sumo, refer to movement to the side, off the line. So, no, harizashi is not a henka, not even of sorts, nor is nekodamashi. (Not that I particularly want to get into a semantic argument, so I refer all further linguistic inquiries to the Daijirin.) In my personal parlance, I call what Kotooushuu did a "tactical henka": a henka for superior position rather than an attempt to win outright by hataki-komi. So, Kotooushuu, "tactical henka", unmanly, Ozeki-rashiku nai, blah, blah, blah. All that out of the way, I saw this henka coming a mile away. Taikai didn't have his head down, but his whole body language was "I'm launching out of this tachiai like a Polaris missile." It wasn't that Kotooushuu's henka didn't surprise me, it was that I was absolutely positive that he would henka. Chiyotaikai should have expected it, too. This isn't Ama here. I don't like henka, and I think Kotooushuu's only hurting his career by depending on it, and there are certainly times when the henka'er should be blamed (Hi, Asashouryuu!) but not this time. And I think Taikai knew it, too. I'm sure when his comments come out tomorrow he'll be blaming himself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 47,232 Posted January 17, 2007 (edited) Can we have a break from henka talk at some stage please. I mean I don't think there is anything about it that hasn't been repeated endless times. You either hate it or you don't care, but it's part of sumo and not going away so..... It's not a henka debate per se, but a specific debate on Osh and his wayward ways. So some of us think it's Ok, some don't. This debate is eternal, just like the "Is there a God" question, etc. We're just trying to break the record for posts. Edited January 17, 2007 by Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hananotaka 8 Posted January 17, 2007 Can we have a break from henka talk at some stage please. I mean I don't think there is anything about it that hasn't been repeated endless times. You either hate it or you don't care, but it's part of sumo and not going away so..... It's not a henka debate per se, but a specific debate on Osh and his wayward ways. So some of us think it's Ok, some don't. This debate is eternal, just like the "Is there a God" question, etc. We're just trying to break the record for posts. Kintamayama's puts it pretty well here. In every forum I've been in, there is at least one hot button topic that is guaranteed to polarize folks and generate a big discussion. Back when I was on rec.arts.anime, it was Subs vs. Dubs. When I was on alt.tv.highlander, it was Movie vs. TV series. On aikido forums, there are two: "Does aikido really work?" and "Does ki exist?" On baseball forums it used to be "Should Pete Rose be in the Hall of Fame?" Now it's steroids. On Tha Gesithas Gegaderung, a forum about Anglo-Saxon era England, it's "Migration vs. Assimilation", and holy smokes, you wouldn't believe the bandwidth blown on that. On J.R.R. Tolkien forums, it's "Do balrogs have wings?" and now, "Were the movies good?" For us, it's henka. It's not so bad, as hot buton topics go. Some of the above discussions get ridiculously heated, with personal insults, sharp battle-lines drawn, and no quarter given to the other side, nor expected from them. Our discussions are tame by comparison. Jejima and I have disagreed about henka for nearly eight(!) years now, but it's absolutely no problem. The henka threads come up, we state our opinions, and things go on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
