Jejima 1,498 Posted January 2, 2005 This topic thread is for the Rikishi in the Hole Beta Test game. For development of the game, please view the 'idea for a new game' thread. In a second I'll bring the relevant posts from that thread for rules etc to this thread, in order to keep things together (Pulling hair...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 2, 2005 Below appear to be all the pages that matter from the old thread. There are still a few refinements which need to be added to fine-tune the rules, which I will do after this post in a separate one.... Okay.....I'm still working on adapting the scoring system for my prototype 16 x 4 game to the seemingly more popular 2 x 8 x 8 version.... Nearly there.... In the meantime here are a few tables for your perusal..... The first is for making the picks. I've checked these out using the data from the past 6 basho (the ones when there have been 42 Makunouchi and 28 Juryo, plus no kosho rule), and if we'd all made the best picks, the total number of wins is roughly the same, BUT with a general slight increase going from the 1st picker to the the 8th picker (ie the 8th picker would have the advantage in the total number of wins across the board). I believe that as it is much easier to spot the 12 and 13 winners to the 9 vs 8 winners (or 4 vs 3 winners), this bias should average itself out. We'll get an idea at the end of the first beta testing basho :-) There is also the matter of the Jokers ;-) Player picks A 1, 16, 31, 32, 33, 55, 56, 64 B 2, 15, 29, 30, 34, 53, 54, 63 C 3, 14, 27, 28, 35, 51, 52, 62 D 4, 13, 25, 26, 36, 49, 50, 61 E 5, 12, 23, 24, 37, 47, 48, 60 F 6, 11, 21, 22, 38, 45, 46, 59 G 7, 10, 19, 20, 39, 43, 44, 58 H 8, 9, 17, 18, 40, 41, 42, 57 Next table is the matches. You'll note that in the first week, all of the East Division matches are against the West Division. There will therefore be a Championship Flag awarded to the better division on Day 8, before the divisions start battling amongst themselves to get the overall divisional winners (wins and points from the first week carry through into the second). A, B, C etc denotes the order of picks (as in the table above). Little e denotes the 'East side of the division', little w denotes the 'West side of the division'. The number at the cross-section is the day on which they meet. Ae Be Ce De Ee Fe Ge He Aw Bw Cw Dw Ew Fw Gw Hw Ae X 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Be 15 X 13 14 11 12 9 10 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Ce 14 13 X 15 10 9 12 11 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 De 13 14 15 X 9 10 11 12 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 5 Ee 12 11 10 9 X 15 14 13 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 4 Fe 11 12 9 10 15 X 13 14 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 3 Ge 10 9 12 11 14 13 X 15 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 2 He 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 X 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 1 Of course the w division matches are the mirror of the above (just swap all es for ws and vice versa). The top four of the East division will remain in the East division (Makunouchi) for the next basho, and become A, B, C and D (eg player who comes first on the East side, takes the 'A' slot on the East side). The top four of the West side become E - G of the East division for the next basho. The bottom four of the East side Makunouchi drop into slots A-D of the West side of the Juryo1 division. The bottom four of the West side Makunouchi drop into slots A-D of the West side of the Juryo2 division. (These 3 divisions give 48 players. If this game is to be included in the super banzuke some time in the future, these should be the ones considered for points!). The top 2 of Juryo1 East div move into slots A and B Makunouchi West side. Top 2 of Juryo1 West side take slots C and D Mak W side. Top 2 of Juryo2 East get E and F Mak W side, and Top 2 of Juryo2 West get slots G and H of the Mak W side. (You will note that for the next basho, the East side 8 players will all be from the previous basho's Makunouchi Division, whereas the West side Division will be made up of 8 players promoted up from the Juryo Divisions. This will give an extra edge to the first week's Championship Flag comp. Vets vs Young Turks ;-) How does the over all promotions and demotions work?! Well, it's a bit complicated, so below is a diagram to make it a bit easier to comprehend. The basis is having one division at the top - Makunouchi (made up of an East side and a West side with 8 in each), and one division at the very bottom level (again with an East and a West side). For the purpose of this explanation, I am making the bottom division Sandanme. (With more players, the bottom division can be Jonidan or whatever, with the same principal as shown for Makushita being applied to Sandanme.) All the divisions in between have 2 divisions at that level. eg Juryo1 and Juryo2. Both divisions (having the two divisions within them of East and West. (Therefore there will be a total of 32 Juryo players in two major divisions). For purposes of ranking, the 8 players in Juryo1 East can be considered the highest (A down to H), then Juryo1 West and naturally Juryo2 East then Juryo2 West. Below shows how players will be moved from one basho to the next. The letters and numbers shows how the players did in the previous basho. The player in the A slot, gets to pick first etc for the next basho (and is viewed as the highest ranker in that division.) M = Makunouchi, J1 = Juryo1, J2 = Juryo2, m1 = makushita1, m2 = makushita2, s = sandanme. E = East side, W = West side Makunouchi East side West side A: ME 1st J1E 1st B: ME 2nd J1E 2nd C: ME 3rd J1W 1st D: ME 4th J1W 2nd E: MW 1st J2E 1st F: MW 2nd J2E 2nd G: MW 3rd J2W 1st H: MW 4th J2W 2nd Juryo1 Juryo2 East side West side East side West side A: J1E 3rd ME 5th J1E 5th ME 7th B: J1E 4th ME 6th J1E 6th ME 8th C: J1W 3rd MW 5th J1W 5th MW 7th D: J1W 4th MW 6th J1W 6th MW 8th E: J2E 3rd m1E 1st J2E 5th m1E 2nd F: J2E 4th m1W 1st J2E 6th m1W 2nd G: J2W 3rd m2E 1st J2W 5th m2E 2nd H: J2W 4th m2W 1st J2W 6th m2W 2nd Makushita1 Makushita2 East side West side East side West side A: m1E 3rd J1E 7th m1E 5th J1E 8th B: m1E 4th J1W 7th m1E 6th J1W 8th C: m1W 3rd J2E 7th m1W 5th J2E 8th D: m1W 4th J2W 7th m1W 6th J2W 8th E: m2E 3rd sE 1st m2E 5th sE 3rd F: m2E 4th sE 2nd m2E 6th sE 4th G: m2W 3rd sW 1st m2W 5th sW 3rd H: m2W 4th sW 2nd m2W 6th sW 4th Sandanme East side West side A: sE 5th m1E 7th B: sE 6th m1E 8th C: sE 7th m1W 7th D: sE 8th m1W 8th E: sW 5th m2E 7th F: sW 6th m2E 8th G: sW 7th m2W 7th H: sW 8th m2W 8th NB, as there are likely to be drones in the bottom division to fill out the number of players, these are NOT ranked on the next banzuke. All players merely move up to fill in the empty slots. Therefore it is likely that a good proportion of the players dropping from Makushita to Sandanme will actually end up on the East side. New players to the game get to fill in the next slots on a first come, first served basis, and so will all end up (probably!) on the West side. As soon as it becomes necessary (due to number of players), the 2nd division of the bottom division is opened, and a new single lower division is provisionally in virtual place (it probably won't actually be there, as it will be full of drones - This is just a minor mental challenge just to close all possible loop-holes in the promotion / demotion rules. ;-). The promotions and demotions occur as before, with drones dropping out to make room for real players. More details as to the rules for the actual game to come very soon..... I've nearly worked out how to make sure that the game will be different to all the other games out there - and still challenging ;-) My concern is that with 8 rikishi per player, the game will either end up like hoshitori or Bench Sumo (or a hybrid of the two) - but I am sure I can avoid that ;-) Whilst I was busy typing the above, I suddenly had a brain-wave which may be an answer to everything to do with the rules..... ;-) But let me think about it first.... Enjoy the above tables ;-) Cheers, Jejima <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Okay.....I'm still working on adapting the scoring system for my prototype 16 x 4 game to the seemingly more popular 2 x 8 x 8 version.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 2, 2005 Here are the minor tie-ups for the rules. First to clear up a mistake from a previous post. If the Beta-test turns out to be okay, then the new ranking for the next basho will be as below (correctly following the rules for promotion/demotion):- Makunouchi East A: ME 1st B: ME 2nd C: ME 3rd D: ME 4th E: MW 1st F: MW 2nd G: MW 3rd H: MW 4th West A: ME 5th B: ME 6th C: MW 5th D: MW 6th E: ME 7th F: ME 8th G: MW 7th H: MW 8th Secondly, as the rules stand, we only get to see our opponents line-ups after the results have been published (to keep us sweating (Pulling hair...) ) This would give me (Jejima) a VERY easy way to cheat, and win 15-0 :-S To safeguard against this enventuality, Jakusotsu has kindly agreed to be the adjudicator for Jejima. I will send him my line-ups before each day's action, and he will check that those line-ups do not change as compared with the day's results :-O The way the 'How to win' rules were written up are done on the basis of having no rikishi in common with your opponent. Of course during the first week (of the East vs West Championship Flag), there will be times when you will face opponents with the same rikishi as yourself. Therefore, the 'How to win' rules are rewritten as below to close any possible misunderstanding with them (closing the loopholes) How to win:- In the order for deciding the tie... 1. Hole rikishi - If one hole rikishi wins, and the other loses, the winner is the one with the winning Hole. 2. Rank-and-file predictions - the player with the higher number of correct predictions wins. 3. Rank of the winning Hole. If both players have winning Holes and an equal number of correctly predicted rank-and-filers, then the player with the lowest ranking Hole wins. If both have the same winning 'Rikishi in the Hole', then go to #4. 4. Lowest rank of correctly predicted rank-and-file winner. If both players have losing Holes and an equal number of correctly predicted rank-and-filers, then the player with the lowest ranking predicted winner wins. If this is the same for both players, then that rikishi is ignored (ie the next lowest ranking predicted winner). Of course, if that rikishi is also the same, then ignore that one too, and so on. 5. Highest rank of correctly predicted rank-and-filer loser. If both players have losing Holes and an equal number of correctly predicted rank-and-filers, and no correctly predicted *different* winners, then the player with the highest ranking predicted loser wins. If this is the same for both players, then ignore, and go to the next one, and so on. 6. If neither player makes even one correct prediction (hole or rank-and-filer) - (other than ones that are identical to each other), then the East side rikishi wins. If they are both on the East side, or both on the West side, then the original first picker of the two (ie A - H) wins. (NB This is also the 3rd rule for bouts involving two drones - see below) Finally, whilst in the Beta testing stage of the game, there may still be a few bugs that I haven't spotted, or things that haven't been written clearly. In all such cases, Jejima's rulings are final :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 2, 2005 Here are the match-ups for the first week of Rikishi in the Hole, the East division vs West division championship (Pulling hair...) Day 1 He Jejima v Hw Zeokage Ge Azumaryu v Gw Nishinoshima Fe Oshirokita v Fw Aderchelseamaru Ee Gernobono v Ew Sekihiryu De Hamanoyama v Dw Gusoyama Ce Zenjimoto v Cw Golynohana Be Kintamayama v Bw Jomojo Ae Doitsuyama v Aw Jakusotsu Day 2 He Jejima v Aw Jakusotsu Ge Azumaryu v Hw Zeokage Fe Oshirokita v Gw Nishinoshima Ee Gernobono v Fw Aderchelseamaru De Hamanoyama v Ew Sekihiryu Ce Zenjimoto v Dw Gusoyama Be Kintamayama v Cw Golynohana Ae Doitsuyama v Bw Jomojo Day 3 He Jejima v Bw Jomojo Ge Azumaryu v Aw Jakusotsu Fe Oshirokita v Hw Zeokage Ee Gernobono v Gw Nishinoshima De Hamanoyama v Fw Aderchelseamaru Ce Zenjimoto v Ew Sekihiryu Be Kintamayama v Dw Gusoyama Ae Doitsuyama v Cw Golynohana Day 4 He Jejima v Cw Golynohana Ge Azumaryu v Bw Jomojo Fe Oshirokita v Aw Jakusotsu Ee Gernobono v Hw Zeokage De Hamanoyama v Gw Nishinoshima Ce Zenjimoto v Fw Aderchelseamaru Be Kintamayama v Ew Sekihiryu Ae Doitsuyama v Dw Gusoyama Day 5 He Jejima v Dw Gusoyama Ge Azumaryu v Cw Golynohana Fe Oshirokita v Bw Jomojo Ee Gernobono v Aw Jakusotsu De Hamanoyama v Hw Zeokage Ce Zenjimoto v Gw Nishinoshima Be Kintamayama v Fw Aderchelseamaru Ae Doitsuyama v Ew Sekihiryu Day 6 He Jejima v Ew Sekihiryu Ge Azumaryu v Dw Gusoyama Fe Oshirokita v Cw Golynohana Ee Gernobono v Bw Jomojo De Hamanoyama v Aw Jakusotsu Ce Zenjimoto v Hw Zeokage Be Kintamayama v Gw Nishinoshima Ae Doitsuyama v Fw Aderchelseamaru Day 7 He Jejima v Fw Aderchelseamaru Ge Azumaryu v Ew Sekihiryu Fe Oshirokita v Dw Gusoyama Ee Gernobono v Cw Golynohana De Hamanoyama v Bw Jomojo Ce Zenjimoto v Aw Jakusotsu Be Kintamayama v Hw Zeokage Ae Doitsuyama v Gw Nishinoshima Day 8 He Jejima v Gw Nishinoshima Ge Azumaryu v Fw Aderchelseamaru Fe Oshirokita v Ew Sekihiryu Ee Gernobono v Dw Gusoyama De Hamanoyama v Cw Golynohana Ce Zenjimoto v Bw Jomojo Be Kintamayama v Aw Jakusotsu Ae Doitsuyama v Hw Zeokage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 2, 2005 This is the second week of match-ups:- Day 9: Ew Sekihiryu v Dw Gusoyama Fw Aderchelseamaru v Cw Golynohana Gw Nishinoshima v Bw Jomojo Hw Zeokage v Aw Jakusotsu De Hamanoyama v Ee Gernobono Ce Zenjimoto v Fe Oshirokita Be Kintamayama v Ge Azumaryu Ae Doitsuyama v He Jejima Day 10: Fw Aderchelseamaru v Dw Gusoyama Ew Sekihiryu v Cw Golynohana Hw Zeokage v Bw Jomojo Gw Nishinoshima v Aw Jakusotsu De Hamanoyama v Fe Oshirokita Ce Zenjimoto v Ee Gernobono Be Kintamayama v He Jejima Ae Doitsuyama v Ge Azumaryu Day 11: Gw Nishinoshima v Dw Gusoyama Hw Zeokage v Cw Golynohana Ew Sekihiryu v Bw Jomojo Fw Aderchelseamaru v Aw Jakusotsu De Hamanoyama v Ge Azumaryu Ce Zenjimoto v He Jejima Be Kintamayama v Ee Gernobono Ae Doitsuyama v Fe Oshirokita Day 12: Gw Nishinoshima v Cw Golynohana Hw Zeokage v Dw Gusoyama Fw Aderchelseamaru v Bw Jomojo Ew Sekihiryu v Aw Jakusotsu De Hamanoyama v He Jejima Ce Zenjimoto v Ge Azumaryu Be Kintamayama v Fe Oshirokita Ae Doitsuyama v Ee Gernobono Day 13: Gw Nishinoshima v Fw Aderchelseamaru Hw Zeokage v Ew Sekihiryu Cw Golynohana v Bw Jomojo Dw Gusoyama v Aw Jakusotsu Fe Oshirokita v Ge Azumaryu Ee Gernobono v He Jejima Be Kintamayama v Ce Zenjimoto Ae Doitsuyama v De Hamanoyama Day 14: Hw Zeokage v Fw Aderchelseamaru Gw Nishinoshima v Ew Sekihiryu Dw Gusoyama v Bw Jomojo Cw Golynohana v Aw Jakusotsu Fe Oshirokita v He Jejima Ee Gernobono v Ge Azumaryu Be Kintamayama v De Hamanoyama Ae Doitsuyama v Ce Zenjimoto Day 15: Hw Zeokage v Gw Nishinoshima Fw Aderchelseamaru v Ew Sekihiryu Dw Gusoyama v Cw Golynohana Bw Jomojo v Aw Jakusotsu Ge Azumaryu v He Jejima Ee Gernobono v Fe Oshirokita Ce Zenjimoto v De Hamanoyama Ae Doitsuyama v Be Kintamayama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 47,331 Posted January 2, 2005 Jejima, can you post a template entry so we can see how you envision the entry form? You know, like in BS.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 2, 2005 Okay, Here is the moment you may have been waiting for..... The squads for the East side division made using the rules above. The number in brackets is the number of choosing in each player's original list. Below the squads are the 6 unpicked rikishi, in their order for each player. East side: Player picks A Doitsuyama: Ye Asashoryu (1), J10e Wakakirin (4), J2e Toyozakura (6), J3e Takanotsuru (16), J11e Kaido (18), M17w Tokitenku (20), J12e Katayama (21), M11w Jumonji (23) B Kintamayama: Kw Hakuho (2), M2e Kotonowaka (3), J6e Toki (9), M15e Tochisakae (11), M6w Kaiho (14), M15w Harunoyama (17), J5w Kinkaiyama (18), M7w Kotoryu (22) C Zenjimoto: Oe Kaio (3), M5e Roho (6), M3e Tamanoshima (8), M7e Hayateumi (11), M2w Tosanoumi (15), J14w Daimanazuru (20), M9e Takanowaka (22), J12w Sumanofuji (24) D Hamanoyama: S1e Wakanosato (2), M9w Shimotori (7), M8e Hokutoriki (8), M16w Aminishiki (12), M17e Toyonoshima (20), M1w Tochinonada (21), M13w Buyuzan (22), J7w Otsukasa (33) E Gernobono: M10e Dejima (5), J1w Futeno (8), M10w Kyokushuzan (10), M12e Tokitsuumi (12), J4e Kasuganishiki (14), J5e Kobo (16), M14e Kasugao (18), J3w Wakatoba (23) F Oshirokita: M3w Kokkai (4), M11e Asasekiryu (5), J1e Gojoro (6), M1e Iwakiyama (8), M4w Kakizoe (12), J8w Daishodai (19), J9w Yotsukasa (20), M14w Tamakasuga (23) G Azumaryu: M4e Kotooshu (1), M6e Kyokutenho (4), M16e Kotoshogiku (7), M12w Kisenosato (8), J6w Tamaasuka (10), M5w Takamisakari (11), M13e Ama (15), J2w Kitazakura (31) H Jejima: Ow Chiyotaikai (4), Ke Kotomitsuki (6), J4w Ishide (7), S1w Miyabiyama (8), J7e Hakurozan (12), J10w Maikaze (14), J13e Senshuyama (15), J14e Bushuyama (17) Doitsuyama 38. J8e Wakanoyama 41. J13w Chiyotenzan 42. S2w Tochiazuma 43. M8w Takekaze 49. J11w Asanowaka 64. J9e Asofuji Kintamayama 26 J13w Chiyotenzan 38 J11w Asanowaka 55 J8e Wakanoyama 61 J9e Asofuji 63 M8w Takekaze 69 S2w Tochiazuma Zenjimoto 32 M8w Takekaze 46 J11w Asanowaka 47 J13w Chiyotenzan 61 J9e Asofuji 67 J8e Wakanoyama 68 S2w Tochiazuma Hamanoyama 43. J8e Wakanoyama 52. J11w Asanowaka 56. J13w Chiyotenzan 67. J9e Asofuji 69. S2w Tochiazuma 70. M8w Takekaze gernobono 27. J9e Asofuji 46. J8e Wakanoyama 62. J11w Asanowaka 63. J13w Chiyotanzan 69. S2w Tochiazuma 70. M8w Takekaze Oshirokita 49. S2w Tochiazuma 50. J8e Wakanoyama 59. J9e Asofuji 60. J11w Asanowaka 62. J13w Chiyotenzan 65. M8w Takekaze Azumaryu: 37- M8w Takekaze 49- J8e Wakanoyama 55- J9e Asofuji 64- J11w Asanowaka 66- J13w Chiyotenzan 70- S2w Tochiazuma Jejima 18. J13w Chiyotenzan 21. J11w Asanowaka 43. S2w Tochiazuma 53. M8w Takekaze 67. J8e Wakanoyama 69. J9e Asofuji Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 2, 2005 Jejima, can you post a template entry so we can see how you envision the entry form? You know, like in BS.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Okay (Whistling...) A template will be out soon. Just waiting for Sekihiryu's entry to be able to do the West side..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 2, 2005 (edited) Rule clarification..... If two of your squad are facing each other, you are allowed to use BOTH of them, (and so either get 2 predictions correct for the price of one, or 2 predictions wrong - a bit like double or nothing.... or I suppose, if you're using interesting tactics, you could guarantee one correct prediction....) Still awaiting Sekihiryu's entry.... Edited January 2, 2005 by Jejima Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,260 Posted January 2, 2005 East side: Player picksA Doitsuyama: Ye Asashoryu (1), J10e Wakakirin (4), J2e Toyozakura (6), J3e Takanotsuru (16), J11e Kaido (18), M17w Tokitenku (20), J12e Katayama (21), M11w Jumonji (23) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow, I'm feeling lucky to get my no. 4 Wakakirin at the 16th pick in the draft, or no. 6 Toyozakura at the 31st pick. But I guess most players feel lucky as the numbers generally are good. Good think we all have different taste, no? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 2, 2005 I was also very surprised as to how the rikishi were divided up. It is a bit amazing that all, (except two rikishi), were chosen within our respective top 25 preferences. Jejima is also happy - and surprised with his squad.... Three sanyaku (no one else has more than one!) and five Juryo (including last basho's Juryo Yusho winner (Whistling...) ) I just hope I'll be able to predict those Juryo rikishi okay.... H Jejima: Ow Chiyotaikai (4), Ke Kotomitsuki (6), J4w Ishide (7), S1w Miyabiyama (8), J7e Hakurozan (12), J10w Maikaze (14), J13e Senshuyama (15), J14e Bushuyama (17) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 2, 2005 (edited) Template entry.... Please make your daily entries to rikishi.in.the.hole@gmail.com like this.... In the subject title:- Jejima Day 1 In the main body of the text:- Jejima Day 1 H - Ke Kotomitsuki RAF - Ow Chiyotaikai W, J4w Ishide W, S1w Miyabiyama L, J7e Hakurozan L, S - J13e Senshuyama, J14e Bushuyama, J10w Maikaze Comment: I'm very excited by this new game..... For clarification H = Hole RAF = Rank and File W = predicted winner L = predicted loser S = substitutes (only to be used if needed to replace a forfeit winner or loser) You will also note that I've kept their ranks (eg Ke, J4w etc) next to their shikonas. This is to make it easier for me to find them in the results (especially for the Juryo rikishi!) You will also see that I put the predicted winners before the predicted losers - again for my ease. You will further note that amongst the RAF, I put the predicted winners in order of rank, and then the predicted losers in order of rank. Again to make it as easy as possible for me to work out what's what. The subs are different due to the rules. They are just placed in order of likelihood of winning - in case they are called in to replace a forfeit loss / win rikishi. (Read rules above if you need further clarfication). Comments are - of course - unnecessary, but should you want to give one (and I will assume, unless told otherwise, that all comments (whether prefaced or not) included in a daily entry email are intended for all), are preferable at the end.... Edited January 2, 2005 by Jejima Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 3, 2005 I've still not heard from Sekihiryu, and so to cover all bases, I'm going to set a deadline for entries for the Beta testing of Rikishi in the Hole. That is this Friday (7th Jan 2005), 2 pm Japan time (the same as for Bench Sumo). If I don't receive his entry by then, then we'll use a drone with drone rules (Wearing a paperbag...) Hopefully he'll send his entry much earlier than that! It took me a LONG time to sort out the East side of the division, and so I suspect it will take a similar length of time for the West side, hence the request for the entry to be in as soon as possible. I'll also send a copy of this message to his email address through the Sumo Forum. I don't think I can be fairer than that (and besides, this is still only a Beta Test!) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oshirokita 198 Posted January 3, 2005 F Oshirokita: M3w Kokkai (4), M11e Asasekiryu (5), J1e Gojoro (6), M1e Iwakiyama (8), M4w Kakizoe (12), J8w Daishodai (19), J9w Yotsukasa (20), M14w Tamakasuga (23)G Azumaryu: M4e Kotooshu (1), M6e Kyokutenho (4), M16e Kotoshogiku (7), M12w Kisenosato (8), J6w Tamaasuka (10), M5w Takamisakari (11), M13e Ama (15), J2w Kitazakura (31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am unsure why I do not have Ama as my round 6 pick. The rikishi list I sent had Ama as my 15th choice, so I should have received him instead of Daishodai since Ama was still available in round 6 (Azumaryu took Ama in round 7). (Wearing a paperbag...) - Oshirokita, from the Great White North Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 3, 2005 Check the table for the order of picking your rikishi. Azamaryu gets his 7th pick BEFORE you get your 6th pick :-O He therefore gets Ama, and you get Daishodai and Yotsukasa instead :-/ F Oshirokita: M3w Kokkai (4), M11e Asasekiryu (5), J1e Gojoro (6), M1e Iwakiyama (8), M4w Kakizoe (12), J8w Daishodai (19), J9w Yotsukasa (20), M14w Tamakasuga (23)G Azumaryu: M4e Kotooshu (1), M6e Kyokutenho (4), M16e Kotoshogiku (7), M12w Kisenosato (8), J6w Tamaasuka (10), M5w Takamisakari (11), M13e Ama (15), J2w Kitazakura (31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am unsure why I do not have Ama as my round 6 pick. The rikishi list I sent had Ama as my 15th choice, so I should have received him instead of Daishodai since Ama was still available in round 6 (Azumaryu took Ama in round 7). (Wearing a paperbag...) - Oshirokita, from the Great White North <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,260 Posted January 3, 2005 The first is for making the picks. Player Picks A 1, 16, 31, 32, 33, 55, 56, 64 B 2, 15, 29, 30, 34, 53, 54, 63 C 3, 14, 27, 28, 35, 51, 52, 62 D 4, 13, 25, 26, 36, 49, 50, 61 E 5, 12, 23, 24, 37, 47, 48, 60 F 6, 11, 21, 22, 38, 45, 46, 59 G 7, 10, 19, 20, 39, 43, 44, 58 H 8, 9, 17, 18, 40, 41, 42, 57 F Oshirokita: M3w Kokkai (4), M11e Asasekiryu (5), J1e Gojoro (6), M1e Iwakiyama (8), M4w Kakizoe (12), J8w Daishodai (19), J9w Yotsukasa (20), M14w Tamakasuga (23)G Azumaryu: M4e Kotooshu (1), M6e Kyokutenho (4), M16e Kotoshogiku (7), M12w Kisenosato (8), J6w Tamaasuka (10), M5w Takamisakari (11), M13e Ama (15), J2w Kitazakura (31) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I am unsure why I do not have Ama as my round 6 pick. The rikishi list I sent had Ama as my 15th choice, so I should have received him instead of Daishodai since Ama was still available in round 6 (Azumaryu took Ama in round 7). (Wearing a paperbag...) - Oshirokita, from the Great White North <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, as you can see from the table avove, the picks aren't done in straight "one-pick-rounds" as the picks 3+4 and 6+7 are combined for two "two-pick-rounds". Azumaryu's 7th pick was the 44th overall and your 6th pick was the 45th overall, so he just beat you out for Ama. I guess the "weird" draft table is to even out the differences of draft positions, but having a two-pick-round for picks 6+7 seems more confusing then helping. While we are at it we could just as well debate the draft table now, as it's unlikely (I guess) the basho itself will give much more insight to it than the actual drafting. To start off: I think complicating draft rounds beyond round 3 is useless given the obvious different preferences from the actual draft. So it seems possible to simplify the draft table (simplifying is always good) to just let picks 2 to 8 be "one-pick-rounds" and all going from H to A. Or if more effort is needed to offset the advantage of drafting first, picks 2+3 could be a "two-pick-round" going from H to A which seems more efficient to me than combining picks 3+4 as it was done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 3, 2005 (edited) I see no reason to change the draft, as by looking at our respective picks it seems to have worked out okay. It is certainly more interesting (which is important!) for me to work out the teams for each player with a non-regular pattern. Also, as I make up the lists by cutting and pasting, it actually makes it quicker (and please note that it still took me a long time to complete the East side!) if I can cut and paste two at once (the double pick rounds). It also took me a long time to come up with that table, after going through all the results from last year's bashos, to get something which was the most fair. So for that reason alone I am loathe to chuck it out (Wearing a paperbag...) The fact that the picks table is a little unusual does not hinder the players, but does make it easier and more interesting for the administrator. So as it does not seem to have greatly handicapped anybody, I'd prefer to keep it for the time-being.... Besides I am a great fan of idiosyncrasies :-O [While we are at it we could just as well debate the draft table now, as it's unlikely (I guess) the basho itself will give much more insight to it than the actual drafting. To start off: I think complicating draft rounds beyond round 3 is useless given the obvious different preferences from the actual draft. So it seems possible to simplify the draft table (simplifying is always good) to just let picks 2 to 8 be "one-pick-rounds" and all going from H to A. Or if more effort is needed to offset the advantage of drafting first, picks 2+3 could be a "two-pick-round" going from H to A which seems more efficient to me than combining picks 3+4 as it was done. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Edited January 3, 2005 by Jejima Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 3, 2005 Whilst awaiting Sekihiryu's entry, and for my own curiosity, I have just worked out the West side teams with Sekihiryu as a drone, and I must say you West side guys are an interesting bunch! You all seem to have completely different strategies to each other, as evidenced by the high number of your top ten choices in your squads. One player has his 12th choice rikishi in his # 7 pick slot! Another has managed to get his 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th AND 6th choice rikishis into his team. Of course when Sekihiryu enters his team, this will no doubt all change.... But currently it looks a bit like chaos theory in action....!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aderechelsea 125 Posted January 3, 2005 i am sure that guy is me ... i really didn't know what to do with the picks and just put a lot of names in a row .... so i guess i will have a lot of picks others wouldn't be so much interested in ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oshirokita 198 Posted January 3, 2005 Well, as you can see from the table avove, the picks aren't done in straight "one-pick-rounds" as the picks 3+4 and 6+7 are combined for two "two-pick-rounds". <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah, got it! I didn't examine the table closely enough before. Sorry! Thanks for the clarification. Still think I got a great team!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sekihiryu 51 Posted January 4, 2005 Whilst awaiting Sekihiryu's entry,eam.Of course when Sekihiryu enters his team, this will no doubt all change.... But currently it looks a bit like chaos theory in action....!!! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> wait no more, sorry Im last, on vacation (Oops! ) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,498 Posted January 4, 2005 Here are the West side teams. With Sekihiryu's entry, things changed considerably. There seems to be two types of tactics at play on the West side, either avoid Juryo rikishi at all costs, or warmly embrace them! A Jakusotsu Ye Asashoryu (1), J5w Kinkaiyama (4), J4w Ishide (8), J12e Katayama (9), J10e Wakakirin (14), J4e Kasuganishiki (19), J5e Kobo (21), J14e Bushuyama (23) B Jomojo M9e Takanowaka (1), M2e Kotonowaka (3), M2w Tosanoumi (4), M3e Tamanoshima (5), M12e Tokitsuumi (7), S2w Tochiazuma (27), M16w Aminishiki (31), J8e Wakanoyama (57) C Golynohana Oe Kaio (2), M11w Jumonji (3), M10w Kyokushuzan (9), M3w Kokkai (13), M13w Buyuzan (14), M14w Tamakasuga (15), M15e Tochisakae (30), J7e Hakurozan (49) D Gusoyama Kw Hakuho (3), M8e Hokutoriki (4), Ke Kotomitsuki (5), M1w Tochinonada (9), M1e Iwakiyama (14), M4w Kakizoe (15), M8w Takekaze (28), J6w Tamaasuka (45) E Sekihiryu Se Wakanosato (4), Ow Chiyotaikai (5), M13e Ama (9), M5e Roho (10), M17w Tokitenku (14), M17e Toyonoshima (26), M7w Kotoryu (27), J7w Otsukasa (31) F Aderchelseamaru M9w Shimotori (2), M11e Asasekiryu (3), M14e Kasugao (4), M6e Kyokutenho (5), M6w Kaiho (6), J2e Toyozakura (17), J10w Maikaze (18), M15w Harunoyama (28) G Nishinoshima J1w Futeno (3), M16e Kotoshogiku (4), J6e Toki (6), J11w Asanowaka (8), J8w Daishodai (10), J3e Takanotsuru (11), J2w Kitazakura (12), J13w Chiyotenzan (40) H Zeokage M4e Kotooshu (4), M10e Dejima (5), M12w Kisenosato (6), S1w Miyabiyama (7), J1e Gojoro (9), M5w Takamisakari (15), M7e Hayateumi (19), J3w Wakatoba (26) Here are the unpicked rikishi... Jakusotsu's picks 38. J9w Yotsukasa 40. J12w Sumanofuji 56. J9e Asofuji 57. J11e Kaido 58. J13e Senshuyama 69. J14w Daimanazuru jomojo's Entry 59. J9e Asofuji 60. J9w Yotsukasa 63. J11e Kaido 66. J12w Sumanofuji 67. J13e Senshuyama 70. J14w Daimanazuru Golynohana's picks: 57. J11e Kaido 62. J9w Yotsukasa 66. J9e Asofuji 67. J12w Sumanofuji 69. J14w Daimanazuru 70. J13e Senshuyama Gusoyama 49 J9e Asofuji 52 J12w Sumanofuji 53 J9w Yotsukasa 55 J13e Senshuyama 57 J11e Kaido 58 J14w Daimanazuru Sekihiryu 41. J9e Asofuji 56. J11e Kaido 58. J13e Senshuyama 59. J9w Yotsukasa 62. J14w Daimanazuru ?? J12w Sumanofuji Aderechelseamaru 51 J11e Kaido 61 J14w Daimanazuru 63 J9e Asofuji 64 J9w Yotsukasa 65 J12w Sumanofuji 66 J13e Senshuyama Nishinoshima 43. J12w Sumanofuji 44. J11e Kaido 66. J9w Yotsukasa 68. J11e Kaido 69. J13e Senshuyama 70. J14w Daimanazuru Zeokage 36 J12w Sumanofuji 37 J13e Senshuyama 45 J11e Kaido 50 J9w Yotsukasa 61 J9e Asofuji 63 J14w Daimanazuru Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 6,401 Posted January 4, 2005 Ye Asashoryu (1), J5w Kinkaiyama (4), J4w Ishide (8), J12e Katayama (9), J10e Wakakirin (14), J4e Kasuganishiki (19), J5e Kobo (21), J14e Bushuyama (23) 38. J9w Yotsukasa 40. J12w Sumanofuji 56. J9e Asofuji 57. J11e Kaido 58. J13e Senshuyama 69. J14w Daimanazuru (Shaking head...) Wow, one Yokozuna and 13 Juryo rikishi. Maybe I should have studied the tables a bit more carefully before submitting my picks...ganbarimasu! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeokage 0 Posted January 4, 2005 H Zeokage M4e Kotooshu (4), M10e Dejima (5), M12w Kisenosato (6), S1w Miyabiyama (7), J1e Gojoro (9), M5w Takamisakari (15), M7e Hayateumi (19), J3w Wakatoba (26)36 J12w Sumanofuji 37 J13e Senshuyama 45 J11e Kaido 50 J9w Yotsukasa 61 J9e Asofuji 63 J14w Daimanazuru <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Seems like I did ok surprisingly. I also got 2 of my favourite 3 rikishi (Sakari and Hayateumi, Jomojo got the other) which is even more surprising. Now to make sure I understand the rules correctly. (Shaking head...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jomojo 0 Posted January 4, 2005 B Jomojo M9e Takanowaka (1), M2e Kotonowaka (3), M2w Tosanoumi (4), M3e Tamanoshima (5), M12e Tokitsuumi (7), S2w Tochiazuma (27), M16w Aminishiki (31), J8e Wakanoyama (57) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ah! Looks like I am the only Western beta-tester to have listed Tochiazuma among the top 30 picks, while Tochiazuma has failed to make it into the top 40 in any of the Eastern beta-testers lists. Was this the stroke of genius or delusion on my part? Doh! jomojo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
