1st female PM and the ban on women on the dohyo

[Akinomaki 41,815]

On 06/10/2025 at 12:37, dingo said:

Next probable PM is the first ever female (if confirmed) leader Sanae Takaichi. Apparently with quite conservative views so maybe she'll make a point to attend sumo as a traditional Japanese event. If she does, then no need to expect anything to change with the dohyo rules, as she's probably too conservative to demand access for women on the dohyo. 

With Takaichi now PM, the discussion is revived about the ban on women on the kokugikan dohyo - 女人禁制 nyonin kinsei.

The NSK responsible for the matter: "If the new PM makes the request 'I want to step onto the dohyo', we may discuss the matter, but at the present stage there is nothing, so we haven't talked about it."

o  

When the NSK started 100 years ago, no outsider was allowed on the dohyo, regardless of gender

Edited Wednesday at 19:58 by Akinomaki

[Tochinofuji 405]

From what is being said about her political leanings and philosophy, it doesn't seem all that likely to me that she's going to be inclined to challenge the status quo. That said I'm reliant on foreign reporting as to her stance on things, so would appreciate any more local insight! 

[Xiongmao 24]

20 minutes ago, Tochinofuji said:

From what is being said about her political leanings and philosophy, it doesn't seem all that likely to me that she's going to be inclined to challenge the status quo. That said I'm reliant on foreign reporting as to her stance on things, so would appreciate any more local insight! 

Extremely unlikely she would.

[Morning 99]

The simple solution to this would be to roll a carpet onto the dohyo, so she wouldn't have to step onto the dohyo.

[Benihana 1,972]

5 hours ago, Morning said:

The simple solution to this would be to roll a carpet onto the dohyo, so she wouldn't have to step onto the dohyo.

In that case a carpet would not be neccessary, as long as socks are worn, one could argue. No bare skin touches the dohyo. 

I'm torn. On the on hand, it is 2025. On the other hand we have traditions affecting only a tiniest fraction of the population* and not even on a daily basis and there is no real harm done. Would i love it to see a proud daughter/wife/mom do the snippy-snip without the snipped to be moved to the edge of the dohyo? Yes.

Of course there have to be exceptions. We all remeber the medical incident a few years ago. A life should count more than any tradition.

But to be honest: Who are we, non-japanese and/or non-shinto-followers, to discuss this? Or even condemn this? 

 

* Yes, i'm aware women make up almost of 50% of the worldwide population. But we have to take into regard how many women would even have the chance to get into this particular situation. Family members, government officials, sponsor representatives, paying snippers at danpatsu-shikis. And *boom* that ~50% have shrunk to 0.00manyzeros1%.

[Morning 99]

Only if you assume that wifes, mothers, sisters, sujos and female sponsor representatives, etc wouldn't want to have a go at that hair or simply don't exist. Why shouldn't a departing rikishi have their final fight against their daughter.

Like the London koen didn't have any female represantives of anything but they also sidestepped the issue completely with doing awards on the stage instead of the dohyo.

 

And for mothers who really want a snip they make that hoopla with the platform at the side of the dohyo, with have seen that in danpatsushiki

Edited Thursday at 12:10 by Morning

[Akinomaki 41,815]

8 hours ago, Morning said:

The simple solution to this would be to roll a carpet onto the dohyo, so she wouldn't have to step onto the dohyo.

Exactly my thoughts

- a short reminder of the most scandalous event in connection with the ban. I thought then this was the beginning of the end for that, but nothing changed afterwards

On 04/04/2018 at 15:07, Kintamayama said:

On 04/04/2018 at 14:46, Yubinhaad said:

Dramatic scenes in Maizuru today as 67-year-old Mayor Ryozo Tatami collapsed on the dohyo while delivering his opening address. Luckily a female doctor was in the audience and performed cardiac massage on the mayor, who was later transported to hospital. A city spokesman said the mayor is conscious and able to talk, so that's good news.

 another article states that fire department staff were standing by with a defibrillator (AED), so the announcement was made to clear the dohyo so that the mayor could receive further treatment backstage. So maybe the announcement wasn't directed at the lady doctor after all.

 - a lady doctor mounted the dohyo and massaged the Mayor's heart but after a few minutes was told to get off via a public announcement-three times to be precise- after some fans pointed out that women are not allowed on the dohyo. After coming under fire for this, the Kyokai hastily responded by explaining that it was a young gyoji who hastily made the announcement and that they were sorry. The fire department thing sounds like another crock to me too. Another explanation being circulated is that the Kyokai people thought she was just a woman fan and did not know she was a doctor. The Mayor is talking and is not in danger. 

On 06/04/2018 at 18:09, Akinomaki said:

The wide shows reported again that the gyoji only made this scandal announcement after spectators complained that women were on the doyho - and those people also shouted directly to the women and apparently someone from the NSK as well came to urge them to leave: the jungyo promoter told that the helpers actually had been reluctant to go in the first place and had asked him if it were OK to go onto the doyho, which he confirmed.

Now about the ban itself - nobody seems to know exactly what is behind this apparently invention of the Meiji era - as part of the necessity to adopt western standards.

Based on something old, about even wide show regular sumo guest Daishi said he didn't know: sumo was and is still an event to pray for a good harvest (that part is well known), and the goddess responsible for the harvest enjoys men performing for that - and she gets angry when women enter that ground - and disturb her fun. In really old times there was of course no dohyo anyway - the one we know dates to the Edo period.

There are several other possible origins for the ban than a goddess loving to see (nearly) naked men perform for her and being jealous of other women, listed again in recent articles - but none of them an official reason, which simply is tradition, though not a really old one.

Back then I also had a few more ideas

On 08/04/2018 at 08:25, Akinomaki said:

So, there are many possibilities to mend this  without simply abolishing the tradition:

• declare any female who has to touch the dohyo an incarnation for the day of the harvest goddess for which sumo is held in the first place - also after she touched it
• give to some main shrine the privilege to consecrate a specially made sacrilege protection buffer carpet for the dohyo, on which ALL NSK externals have to walk, for yusho ceremonies, mayor address, danpatsu shiki etc.
• always have a reconsecration set at the dohyo, for emergency use by a gyoji at hand
• keep the tradition as it is, with a voluntary self-restriction, and each time a feminist activist breaks the rule, issue a "please respect the tradition" reminder that the dohyo is actually off-limit to women, like still at Mt. Omine

Politicians were first allowed on the dohyo in 1968, with the creation of the Prime minister's cup. Obviously nobody expected then that there ever would be a female prime minister.  Now we have at least a comment from the NSK, that they might consider it, if she asks. Maybe allowing her as an exception and no change in the tradition.

Likely she won't ask, but some day one may be PM who had won a (local) sumo tournament o, like the new minster of economic security Kimi Onoda.

Edited Thursday at 14:03 by Akinomaki

[Yamanashi 4,078]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

like the new minster of economic security Kimi Onoda.

Sorry for the aside, but what a background she has!  Born in Chicago to Japanese mother and Irish-American father (who abandoned them).  Moved to Japan at age one.  A grad of Takushoku University.

[Gurowake 4,151]

45 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Sorry for the aside, but what a background she has!  Born in Chicago to Japanese mother and Irish-American father (who abandoned them).  Moved to Japan at age one.  A grad of Takushoku University.

The Wikipedia article also notes the issues with her having to officially renounce her US citizenship.  Most people when they become Japanese citizens only have to say to the Japanese authorities that they renounce their other citizenships, but the process for officially renouncing US citizenship is a bit more complex.  For most people, this is completely irrelevant and no one probably cares if you do it or not, but when it comes to politicians...

[Akinomaki 41,815]

On 23/10/2025 at 15:53, Akinomaki said:

who had won a (local) sumo tournament o, like the new minster of economic security Kimi Onoda.

The sumo playlist on Onoda's YT channel