Tetsuzukiyama 0 Posted May 5, 2006 Crowd, For the past four tournaments I have been maintaining a partial and illustrated banzuke on my website to help introduce and distinguish the wrestlers for new fans of the sport. I only have entries for the more interesting wrestlers and have left out a full half of the Makunouchi BECAUSE the list is tailored for foreign fans who don't know anything about Japanese or Sumo, which sums up most of the people reading my site anyway. Each entry includes mug, keisho and action shots, a brief writeup as well as the wrestler's recent tournament history. I've also converted the heights and weights to Imperial so that they make some sense to the North Americans and have translated their names ( roughly ), ranks and style from the Kyokai format into easy to read english. ( M11 = 32nd ). Beware that the ages and weights have not been updated for a few basho, I update those every 6 months because they change so seldom. I've also listed some of the nicknames often used on a certain other sumo page to which I contribute and I believe the page will be mirrored there shortly. Like I said, the page has been there for about 8 months but if you're interested drop by: http://bernie.users.geeky.net/index.php?topic=Rankings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phoenix 0 Posted May 6, 2006 Thank you for the link. I found it very informative. Now to search out the rest of your site. I hope you add more to this link as I know more faces than I know the names! I'm getting better though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,495 Posted May 6, 2006 I enjoyed reading it - nice work :-) I can see how this would help a new person coming to the sport. I'm not sure how strict you want to be with the translations of the shikona, but some are not quite (although of course shikonas are not really meant to be translated), for example, I think you need a 'Morning' in Asashoryu's translation, but Morning Blue Dragon is not as catchy as Blue Dragon I guess. I haven't heard of some of the nicknames that you give to the rikishi.... and can think of others that I have heard for some that you have omitted (in the case of the Miyabiflobmonster, probably out of courtesy :-) I think most of the world outside of the US has followed Napoleon (the UK kicking and screaming as it did so), and have gone metric. It may be nice to give the heights and weights in both metric and imperial. (I prefer feet and inches, but can't get my head around lbs for weight, unless I divide by 14 first, and have it in stones and pounds - but I do understand kgs). I believe that maybe other European fans would also prefer Metric? Although I understand your reasoning for converting all ranks into pure numbers, maybe it would help also to give the official rank to avoid later confusion for emerging fans? (eg Hey! You said this guy was ranked number 13, but here it says he is M2E. What does that mean?) Great work. :-D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetsuzukiyama 0 Posted May 6, 2006 I think you need a 'Morning' in Asashoryu's translation, but Morning Blue Dragon is not as catchy as Blue Dragon I guess. Well the translations have gone through a few versions for many of the wrestlers. You mention the 'Morning' character for Asashoryu not being translated but I try to omit the Kanji that are passed down through the stable, like the Kotos of Sadogatake. Kotooshu doesn't mean ' European Harp ', it means Kotozakura's Europe, and then I just use Europe as his name. Kinda like a first-name last-name thing where I don't mention the last names. I don't know enough about all the kanji that were passed down in which stables to what wrestlers and the 'NO' characters always screw things up too. Still, it gives a general idea to english speakers to what images arise in the mind of a Japanese fan ( or Forumers, sorry ). Interesting point about the kgs being easier to understand outside the States in Canada, it may merit another line of stats. Joy. I would love to add 'stone' to the list, I'm not sure I've ever seen Sumo wrestlers weighted by stone. As for adding new names, I have a feeling that more wrestlers would just muddle the point of the page. If a new fan reads 42 bios in a row they probably won't remember much. 21 is a lot already but they are pretty evenly spread through the various countries. Also the M13=36th thing is omitted because it would distract the reader too much to explain. Considering East-West thing doesn't REALLY mean anything, I figured I'd let it slip. Knowing what a Yokozuna is can be hard enough. Thanks for the positive comments, as simple and biased as the page is. Actually I kind-of hoped it would inspire similar 'meet the sumo' projects that help open up this damn cryptic sport. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,495 Posted May 6, 2006 (edited) I would love to add 'stone' to the list, I'm not sure I've ever seen Sumo wrestlers weighted by stone. I'm not sure if you teasing me here or not, but just in case... The imperial measurements used in the UK are ounces, pounds and stones. 16 ounces = 1 pound 14 pounds = 1 stone This effects the way I think. If you say 400 lbs, I think that that sounds heavy, but I don't really know how heavy (you might just as well have said 350 lbs or 450 lbs for the way it feels to me). But if you said 28 stone 8, or even 181 kgs, I would have a much better feel for what you meant. In the UK, most people would probably tell you how much they weigh in stone if you asked them. If you asked them then to say how much they weigh in pounds, you would have to wait a while whilst they multiplied by 14 - even though pounds are really the same thing. (A little like being asked what your age is, and then afterwards being asked to repeat it not in years, but in months, please.) I hope this makes some sense. More on the 'stone' here. Edited May 6, 2006 by Jejima Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sildan 0 Posted May 6, 2006 I would love to add 'stone' to the list, I'm not sure I've ever seen Sumo wrestlers weighted by stone. I'm not sure if you teasing me here or not, but just in case... The imperial measurements used in the UK are ounces, pounds and stones. 16 ounces = 1 pound 14 pounds = 1 stone Jejima: In the US (at least where I'm from), we don't use stones at all... if you would have asked me out of the blue, I couldn't have even given you the conversion, much less my weight. Tetsuzukiyama: I like the page, esp. the bios. A little more Japanese might be helpful (esp. for the styles/techniques) because you often see it that way elsewhere. It might to help in learning some of the terms, like if the kimarite has "oshi" in the name you get an idea of who might be using it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,495 Posted May 6, 2006 Jejima: In the US (at least where I'm from), we don't use stones at all... Yes, I know. That is why I took the time to explain what a 'stone' is to Tetsuzukiyama :-D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetsuzukiyama 0 Posted May 6, 2006 Jejima: In the US (at least where I'm from), we don't use stones at all... Yes, I know. That is why I took the time to explain what a 'stone' is to Tetsuzukiyama :-D I actually used to play Rugby here in Canada and I did once know my weight in stone, but I think it's one of the very few sub-cultures over here which commonly use the word. Good points about kgs and stone, I was somewhat naive in narrowing my target audience to the 300-million on this continent and will be adding the other units shortly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sumolady 0 Posted May 8, 2006 Very enjoyable site --- even though it has been there for 8 months, I had never seen it before. I got a serious chuckle out of your nicknames --- "Babyfaced Bruiser?" LOL (Blushing...) Thanks for all your work! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hananotaka 8 Posted May 8, 2006 (edited) Great site! Reminds me of going through the old SumoWeb webpages when I first got into sumo. Not a big fan of translating shikona, though. I think a link to an explanation box would be better. Wakanosato doesn't mean "Village Youth", if anything it means "Village of Youth" or (really linguistically stretching) "Young Village". But it doesn't even really mean that because Wakanosato made up his shikona from two respected oyakata: the first Wakanohana, and his own shishou Takanosato. Edited May 8, 2006 by Hananotaka Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
troutbum 0 Posted May 9, 2006 Jejima: In the US (at least where I'm from), we don't use stones at all... Yes, I know. That is why I took the time to explain what a 'stone' is to Tetsuzukiyama (Welcome...) The world wide official scientific physical weight unit is kilogramms (kg). Stones, lbs. not. Or what would you think about measuring the weight in japanese rice units (go)??? (Sigh...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 20,252 Posted May 9, 2006 The world wide official scientific physical weight unit is kilogramms (kg). He's obviously not writing for a scientific audience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
troutbum 0 Posted May 9, 2006 The world wide official scientific physical weight unit is kilogramms (kg). He's obviously not writing for a scientific audience. Well then why do all japanese sumo magazines list the wrestlers weight in kg??? Because they are writing for a scientific audience??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,259 Posted May 9, 2006 The world wide official scientific physical weight unit is kilogramms (kg). He's obviously not writing for a scientific audience. Well then why do all japanese sumo magazines list the wrestlers weight in kg??? Because they are writing for a scientific audience??? I seriously doubt Japan still uses "rice units" by any stretch. They have grown up and use metrics. Now only a few countries are left playing with fun units. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jejima 1,495 Posted May 9, 2006 The world wide official scientific physical weight unit is kilogramms (kg). He's obviously not writing for a scientific audience. Well then why do all japanese sumo magazines list the wrestlers weight in kg??? Because they are writing for a scientific audience??? I think Troutburn is missing the point... The website is made for international fans. A lot of international fans live in North America where kgs are less known / understood, therefore Tetsuzukiyama has taken the time to translate them to lbs. In my original post I suggested including kgs too, as not all international fans know what a lb is. My side-divergence into 'stones' was to show that even someone who knows what a lb is, may have problems comprehending big numbers of lbs. Tetsuzukiyama has therefore kindly decided to provide information to as many fans as possible by including multiple weight units, which is greatly appreciated (I am not worthy...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sildan 0 Posted May 10, 2006 (edited) I think Troutburn is missing the point...The website is made for international fans. A lot of international fans live in North America where kgs are less known / understood, therefore Tetsuzukiyama has taken the time to translate them to lbs. In my original post I suggested including kgs too, as not all international fans know what a lb is. My side-divergence into 'stones' was to show that even someone who knows what a lb is, may have problems comprehending big numbers of lbs. Tetsuzukiyama has therefore kindly decided to provide information to as many fans as possible by including multiple weight units, which is greatly appreciated B-) Oh, I quite agree. Being from the US, having weights in lbs. is nice, if only so I don't have to do the multiplication myself... (Whistling...) The fact that the US should switch to metric is an entirely different argument. Edited May 10, 2006 by sildan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tetsuzukiyama 0 Posted May 10, 2006 I've update the page with cm, kg and stone. I probably won't redo the conversions for another four or six months. Thanks for the input, I'll try to make this section more prominent on my page. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
