Kotomitsuki's non-promotion

[Murasakiayame 0]

What happened with Kotomitsuki when he got his 34 wins but no ozeki promotion? Did he win against the wrong people?

[Asashosakari 20,249]

What happened with Kotomitsuki when he got his 34 wins but no ozeki promotion? Did he win against the wrong people?

In short, what presumably spoke against him was:

1) Low-ish rank in the first basho (only M2e, not a sanyaku rank)

2) Only 9-6 in the middle basho, apparently seen as a sign of inconsistency

3) The fact that he was still a relative newcomer to makuuchi, and happened to have his Ozeki run right after the Kyokai was burned by another newcomer who had stormed to the Ozeki rank (Miyabiyama), only to fall apart after promotion

In short, Kotomitsuki was probably in the right place at the wrong time. A year earlier or a couple years later, and the exact same results might have seen him promoted. Shame that he never did put up comparable numbers again. (Showing respect...)

[slt 9]

Shame that he never did put up comparable numbers again. :-|

Although it does seem to point, reassuringly, at the generally accurate decisions made by the Kyokai in terms of promotion.

How often have yokozuna or ozeki promotions been really catastrophic ? We have Miyabiyama, which you've mentioned, who never lined up double-digit wins while Ozeki...

Searching through hakke yoi, I'm running into some interesting bits.

Some of the failed Ozeki seem to have injury to blame: (Showing respect...) (Yawning...)

Maenoyama, who started going downhill right after his promotion. All make-kochi include kyujo time, but the rest isn't brilliant either.

Daiju, again, seemingly injured 2 out of 5 basho as an Ozeki.

Masuiyama II, whose losing records always include him going kyujo.

Just three seem to have been "bad choices":

Kaiketsu. 2 separate promotions to Ozeki, with a gap year in between the two stretches. Both times, quite bad, especially after his second promotion. His first promotion is surprising, as the prior three basho included a make-kochi, and amounted only to 30 wins altogether (albeit with a Yusho and a Jun-yusho).

Matsunobori, 3 years as Ozeki, but never notching double-digit wins.

Ouchiyama - less than 2 years as an Ozeki, and inconsistent (interesting face to look at, though...).

The rest of the promotees have been relatively successful.

Some suprising promotions:

(Although followed by a nice string of kachi-kochi) Kitabayama, with just 28 wins and a Jun-yusho/shukun-sho in the three basho prior to his promotion.

Even more surprising, just 25 wins for Masuiyama I. I suppose the 33 win "rule" must have been different in the old days.

Edit: For the Yokozuna promotion discussion - http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=7461

Edited November 27, 2005 by slt

[Asashosakari 20,249]

Even more surprising, just 25 wins for Masuiyama I. I suppose the 33 win "rule" must have been different in the old days.

Well, that was 25 wins out of 33 bouts for Masuiyama I, not out of 45...

[slt 9]

Even more surprising, just 25 wins for Masuiyama I. I suppose the 33 win "rule" must have been different in the old days.

Well, that was 25 wins out of 33 bouts for Masuiyama I, not out of 45...

Hm... hadn't noticed that. (Showing respect...)

[ikishima 0]

What happened with Kotomitsuki when he got his 34 wins but no ozeki promotion? Did he win against the wrong people?

Most importantly, they got that non-promotion correct.

[Manekineko 200]

What happened with Kotomitsuki when he got his 34 wins but no ozeki promotion? Did he win against the wrong people?

Most importantly, they got that non-promotion correct.

Ah, but who is to say that a pronotion wouldn't have filled Mickey with self-confidence and propelled him to a different career than the one he had? I don't remember how he ruined his elbows and when...

[ikishima 0]

What happened with Kotomitsuki when he got his 34 wins but no ozeki promotion? Did he win against the wrong people?

Most importantly, they got that non-promotion correct.

Ah, but who is to say that a pronotion wouldn't have filled Mickey with self-confidence and propelled him to a different career than the one he had? I don't remember how he ruined his elbows and when...

The fire may still be there. Being the Senpai to Osh may drive Mickey to greatness. Think about how Musoyama was driven by the threat of being surpassed by Kohai Miyabiyama.

[Torideyama 33]

What happened with Kotomitsuki when he got his 34 wins but no ozeki promotion? Did he win against the wrong people?

Most importantly, they got that non-promotion correct.

Ah, but who is to say that a pronotion wouldn't have filled Mickey with self-confidence and propelled him to a different career than the one he had? I don't remember how he ruined his elbows and when...

The discussion of injuries above also applies to Kotomitsuki. If you just take Koto's records after the 12-3, you could see that he would have only spent 7 bashos as an Ozeki, would have gone kadoban 2 times, dropped to Sekiwake in the middle, then saved himself back to Ozeki. During this time, he would go kyujo twice, including his 2nd basho as Ozeki. See the table below, courtesy of Hakkeyoi.net. I have changed it to reflect his ranks had he been promoted after 2002.01.

2001.09 M2e 13-2Y Yusho (1st) Shukun-sho (2nd) Gino-sho (4th)

2001.11 Sw 9-6

2002.01 Se 12-3 Gino-sho (5th)

2002.03 O 8-7

2002.05 O 0-0-15

2002.07 Ok 7-8

2002.09 S 12-3J Kanto-sho (2nd)

2002.11 O 8-7

2003.01 O 9-6

2003.03 O 6-9

2003.05 Ok 0-5-10

2003.07 S 9-6

2003.09 S 11-4J

2003.11 S 6-9

2004.01 K or M1 13-2J Kanto-sho (3rd)

2004.03 Sw 7-8

So, except for a slightly bigger paycheck for a couple of years, he would have ended up right where he is now, based on this unscientific extrapolation of the data.

I just wanted to add my opinion to ikishima's that this was a good non-promotion.

For what it was worth.

Emmett

Torideyama (temporarily Iraqiyama)

[Odoriou 0]

2003.01 O 9-6

2003.03 O 6-9

2003.05 Ok 0-5-10

2003.07 S 9-6

2003.09 S 11-4J

Under the assumption that Mickey had had just a little more motivation in 2003 july basho (one more henka to get back his fictional Ozeki rank), things would look very different:

2003.01 O 9-6

2003.03 O 6-9

2003.05 Ok 0-5-10

2003.07 S 10-5

2003.09 O 11-4J

2003.11 O 6-9

2004.01 Ok 13-2J

2004.03 O 7-8

2004.05 Ok 9-6

2004.07 O 7-8

2004.09 Ok 8-7

2004.11 O 10-5

2005.01 O 7-8

2005.03 Ok 9-6

2005.05 O 13-2

2005.07 O 7-8

2005.09 Ok 9-6

2005.11 O 8-7

2006.01 O

So Mickey wouldn't have been an impressive Ozeki, but at least he would have kept this rank for some years. (On the banzuke...)

Edited December 15, 2005 by Odoriou

[Asashosakari 20,249]

So Mickey wouldn't have been an impressive Ozeki, but at least he would have kept this rank for some years. (On the banzuke...)

I'm feeling compelled to note that taking only 20 Ozeki basho to his fictional 7th kadoban would have made him by far the worst-performing long-term Ozeki ever, though.

(For comparison: Musoyama 6 in 27, Konishiki 7 in 39, Chiyotaikai 8 in 40, Kaio 8 in 32, Tochiazuma 6 in 23 [next basho], Daikirin 5 in 24, Wakashimazu 5 in 28, to name the worst offenders.)

[Kotononami 86]

Excuse my poor english by advance.

As a real fan of Kotomitsuki since 2000-2001 , I really think that he has always be very near of the ozeki level.

With 34 victories between Aki 2001 and Hatsu 2002 , his promotion would not have been stolen in my opinion.

Some ozekis have been promoted with less victories in the past.

10 times he was sanyaku on the 11 last bashos. He is the only rikishi who made a 13/2 in 2005 with his sadogatake partner Kotooshu. I think that Koto has all the natural and technical qualities to become ozeki one day. The problem has always be his irregularity due to mental difficulties. He could never surpass himself when it was time to do it. Pressure? Loose self-confidence?

I hope that Kotonowaka , new sadogatake oyakata will help him so much to surmount this last one incapacity!

2006 Kotomitsuki's year? I really hope so , he's only 29 years , he's not finished! (On the banzuke...)

Edited December 16, 2005 by Kotononami

[Zuikakuyama 1]

I think Mickey needs to lose around 5 - 10 kgs to get into better shape. His sumo gut is one of the loosest around, and probably causes to lose his balance.

[ikishima 0]

I think the lower sanyaku make the basho. When they are capable of upsets or function as "the meat grinder" sumo is far more interesting. I hope Mickey reaches his full potential, the same goes for Wakanosato. But if he never does, I like having him around as a dark horse.

When strong sanyaku fall down the banzuke interesting things can happen. Kotonishiki's 2nd yusho and Takatoriki's yusho from the very bottom of the banzuke were great moments. Neither of them ever made it to ozeki but seeing them as strong sanyaku or yusho capable added a lot of drama. I think it added far more drama than if we had to see them struggle to hold their ozeki rank.