Guest Kaikitsune Posted August 16, 2002 Takanohana has resumed real keiko. On 14th of August he won all 18 bouts against Futagoyama-beya's sandanme rikishi. On the next day he continued his keiko and easily won all 21 bouts against lower ranked rikishi. More important that records against sandanme-opponents is his and stablemaster's positive comments concerning the state of knee compared to pre-Nagoya condition. Asashoryu has completed his shin-ozeki obligations for now and returned to Japan on 12th August. He suffered from cold and only yesterday resumed training by performing shiko and other basic exercises. He has plenty of time left to get back to his diligent training routines. Wakanosato has worked with weights for 2 hours a day doing bench presses, squats and some other exercises. 100kg sets if I understood correctly so he is working out with quite light weights and probably does long sets to develop endurance. http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/hochi/sports/aug/o20020813_20.htm Wakanosato's goal is to reach double digit wins in Aki basho to set up grounds for ozekihood hunting. Chiyotaikai on the other hand goes for yokozuna promotion. He too worked out with weights recently. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kaikitsune Posted August 17, 2002 Takanohana continued keiko the 3rd day in a row. This time wrestling makushita and sandanme opponents including behemoth Gokenzan at high makushita. 23 bouts winning all 23 showing good movements in throwing the behemoth. Keiko against sekitori isn't planned yet. Tomorrow we shall see if Taka continues keiko as it would be the crucial 4th day in a row (earlier Taka has had breaks after 3 days so in that sense it is crucial). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted August 17, 2002 I can't really decide what to think about Taka and his training regime right now. While it still seems to me it's more mental than physical, the latest reports of how bad his injury has been, have really been hard to interpret. It could be that the reports are right and Taka even now pushes his body to the limit of what it can take. Or (as I tend to guess), they have been exaggerated, to release some of the pressure Taka has put on himself in anticipation of his comeback. I really hope he can make a good comeback, but I still doubt he will even enter the dohyo, if he doesn't quickly get some sekitori opposition. Without being too hard on Gokenzan, he is not likely to beat Mickey to Ozeki exactly... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony 16 Posted August 18, 2002 I think that Takanohana will be ready to Aki basho. It's a great rikishi and he can obtain 10 victories. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zentoryu 154 Posted August 18, 2002 I think that Takanohana will be ready to Aki basho. It's a great rikishi and he can obtain 10 victories If the injury is as bad as has been indicated, 10 wins may be a bit overly optimistic. He is certainly capable of going KK however, especially given the fact that several top rikishi will be missing in Aki. I would, however, be pleasantly surprised if he should manage to avoid retirement this basho, given the pressure being put on him by the Yokozuna council. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenjimoto 40 Posted August 19, 2002 OK, here's a controversial question for you all... is there any, I mean ANY, chance at all that in order to give Ozumo a shot in the arm (which a truimphant return of Takanohana certainly would) or to give Takanohana yet more time without forcing his retirement, the outcome of the next basho might be, how should I say, less than 100% determined by free and open competition? Just wondering what you all think about that, cause I have many times thought about whether there could either be a "last hurrah" basho for Taka (one which he miraculously wins, and then announces his final retirement), or perhaps one where he just manages the 12 wins he is "supposed to" in order to stay in Ozumo and have a chance to further heal and prepare for Kyushu... Any chance of such scenario? Cheers Zenjimoto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted August 19, 2002 I think there are almost certainly people within the Kyokai contemplating that, maybe even including Futagoyama-oyakata himself. One problem may be Takanohana, whom I think would have to be kept out of it, while quite a few others would have to be involved. Frankly, I think it would only be possible if Takanohana already was in reasonable enough shape to ALMOST get his yusho or ALMOST get his 12 wins. It's one thing to get some no-name rikishi, or even Musashimaru, lessen his resolve on day 15, but quite another to involve half of the top division in such a yaocho operation. It simply wouldn't be possible, in my opinion. And if I think so, it will almost certainly mean that there are enough people in the Kyokai realizing the risks, that no grand scheme will take place at least. If anything, it's one match here or there, where the opponent and his oyakata are the only ones involved, and while I think it could happen, I don't see it as a very freightening proposal. It wouldn't be good, but if it happens, it happens. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zentoryu 154 Posted August 19, 2002 Takanohana and Wakanohana have always had reputations as being gachinko (spelling?) rikishi. I can't imagine that his attitude would suddenly change, regardless of his situation. So I don't know, if it were to happen, like Yubi said, it would probably be Futogoyama's work and be without Taka's knowledge. At this point, it's hard to imagine him winning 8 or 9. If he were to win more than that, especially 12, I'm sure the questions about the "y" word would crop up, justified or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zentoryu 154 Posted August 19, 2002 , if it were to happen, like Yubi said, it would probably be Futogoyama's work and be without Taka's knowledge. Actually, I meant to write "Futogoyama and or the Kyokai's work" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted August 19, 2002 Takanohana and Wakanohana have always had reputations as being gachinko (spelling?) rikishi. I can't imagine that his attitude would suddenly change, regardless of his situation. So I don't know, if it were to happen, like Yubi said, it would probably be Futogoyama's work and be without Taka's knowledge. I have been wondering about this, and my own viewpoint is this: The tabloids in Japan have used the Hanada family for years in a whole range of different kinds of stories. To call them gachinko seems to me just a way of ensuring themselves that they won't be cut off from the "good stuff" and can keep issuing all kinds of stories on the two. It would also serve to strengthen the picture of Taka and Waka as "good guys", to root for, as contrary to the other "bad guys" in Ozumo. This black and white picture seems pretty much in line with that kind of media culture. Now, judging from the so-called "evidence" regarding yaocho, I would say the chance of Taka and Waka being "gachinko" is pretty much identical to the chance of any other rikishi. Since I'm a general yaocho sceptic, I think this chance is rather good, but I don't think the tabloids know more about it than me (which is very little, I'm afraid, me living pretty much on the other side of the world...) I do think he would be able to get 11 or even 12 wins, if he just could get through his mental barriers. I just don't think he will be able to do that in time... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kaikitsune Posted August 20, 2002 Takanohana digressed from his three day keiko period on 4th training day by returning back to very basics doing mainly shiko. Day after that he spent 10 minutes at Futagoyama-beya before leaving the area. Evidently today on 20th August he had a day off from training. Yaocho radars will be tuned up for Aki basho. If Kyokai would attempt to carry Taka to respectable score, it would be very obvious. If Dale makes videos this basho I am sure Takanohana's opponent's tactics will be analysed thoroughly. I hope Taka goes all out and possible out of active sumo without any glooming dignity absorbers like yaocho-path set ups distorting the true value of the sumo wonder kid. Taka's knee can be a mess but if he knows it won't heal in many months time (the nerve damage), he might as well put all at stake for this basho since it is the final chance judging from all reports and comments or otherwise simply retire. It is quite strange to do half-hearted training which definitely isn't nearly enough to bring him real success in Aki. He seems to be walking in the middle of the street where one can get squashed whereas walking on either side of the street (either train very hard and take risks or admit that circumstances are against his return and retire now) would be safer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kaikitsune Posted August 22, 2002 Musashimaru weighed 237kg in physical examination conducted on over 650 rikishi. That exceeds Akebono's all time record weight of 236kg by 1kg (237-236=1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoshifransu 0 Posted August 23, 2002 all time record weight BTW, what's been the weight of Konishiki, officially ? Many say he reached some 285 kilos but in the stats, I could never verify that ... One thing is sure, last time I watched him, I think it was for 1995 Paris-Bercy exhibition (I watched on Eurosport and not in real, unfortunately, that could be the big regret of my life) and Konishiki looked really ... enormous ! Much more than Akebono or Musashimaru. Although, certainly the fact he was not so tall as Akebono was, which made him look so impressive ! So, 285 kilos for Konishiki, info or legend ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted August 23, 2002 all time record weight BTW, what's been the weight of Konishiki, officially ? Many say he reached some 285 kilos but in the stats, I could never verify that ... One thing is sure, last time I watched him, I think it was for 1995 Paris-Bercy exhibition (I watched on Eurosport and not in real, unfortunately, that could be the big regret of my life) and Konishiki looked really ... enormous ! Much more than Akebono or Musashimaru. Although, certainly the fact he was not so tall as Akebono was, which made him look so impressive ! So, 285 kilos for Konishiki, info or legend ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoshifransu 0 Posted August 23, 2002 Ok. Great. Thanx for your infos. So he really approached the 300 kilos ... Terrific ... BTW, sad news about him, I read he lost his mother aged of 72 years ... About 300 kilos wrestler, an amateur wrestler from Holland reached that impressive weight but unfortunately, he's not ... a very good wrestler, so he does not appear in any statistics. Someone has infos about him ? His name, at least ? Perhaps, Chijanofuji-zeki already heard something about him ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoseiya Yuichi 3 Posted August 23, 2002 Ok. Great. Thanx for your infos. So he really approached the 300 kilos ... Terrific ... Speaking of huge rikishi, let's not forget Emmanuel Yarborough. :-0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Usagi 40 Posted August 23, 2002 Well, it surely sounds harsh, but this dutch guy is rather sick than a sumotori. He was shown in a half an hour report on Amateur-Sumo on German DSF. Obviously he has some bad disease. I really wonder if the poor guy is still alive. Anyway, a picture of him is to be found  here Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoshifransu 0 Posted August 23, 2002 Well, it surely sounds harsh, but this dutch guy is rather sick than a sumotori. He was shown in a half an hour report on Amateur-Sumo on German DSF. Obviously he has some bad disease. I really wonder if the poor guy is still alive. Anyway, a picture of him is to be found here Many thanks. This is exactly the wrestler I wanted to talk about ... Well, and as said Shiroikuma on his web site "In fact he seemed to be very ill, couldn't even get on the dohyo himself, had to have a guy help him climb up the one foot high platform ..." Well, sad news, I hope the wrestler is still alive and is healthy now. It seems Shiroikuma won easily against him, but it must be difficult to move a 300 kilos guy, even if this man is very unfit ..? I watched DSF report too, and we even watched the poor Dutch wrestler crushing on the chairs, beyond the dohyo ... Speaking of huge rikishi, let's not forget Emmanuel Yarborough Well, Sumo is fantastic ... Do you know other sports where 300 kilos men would have a chance to be competitive ..? That's why I like so much Sumo and this Dutch wrestler, Konishiki, Yarborough, Musashimaru can give to the sport in general another dimension, other possibilities ... It's really fantastic ! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony 16 Posted August 24, 2002 This Deutch wrestler seems to me more fat than brawny! Konishiki and Emmanuel Yarborough are more impressive! and certainly less fat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony 16 Posted August 24, 2002 Question : do you like rikishi as Konishiki ( sumo's style and heavy rikishi ) ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoshifransu 0 Posted August 25, 2002 Question : do you like rikishi as Konishiki ( sumo's style and heavy rikishi ) ? I always prefered very heavy rikishi. The first time I watched Sumo, I was really afraid when the heavy wrestlers lost against light wrestlers ... I've got a lot of respect for Mainoumi's career for example but imagine if light wrestlers had the power to beat the heaviest almost each time ? What would happen ? A lot of light judoka (-100 kilos) could imagine they could make a career too because their technics could beat every heavy men each time and we would have a lot of light wrestlers and Sumo would become so boring as Judo is (this is my point of view) (Sumo would become Judo, in other words) Sumo is more than a sport, and beyond traditions, this is a fantastic show when you can watch such supernatural wrestlers with supernatural bodies ... ... And imagine the wrestler who spent all his life to eat so much to reach 200 kilos (with all these risks for the health) and who loses against light new comers ..? I don't want that ! Many fans don't like some classics like Akebono Vs Musashimaru ? Well, it's so impressive, so uncommun, that this is my favourite clash ! I really want wrestlers like Towanoyama, Susanoumi (unfortunately, it seems to be too late for this one) reach the top ! Â (Happy...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kaikitsune Posted August 25, 2002 Takanohana continued his "training at his own pace" by doing shiko on Saturday. He also added he will continue training at his own pace after banzuke release too. I think we can forget seeing Takanohana at Soken grappling on the dohyo on 2nd September. Well, Sumo is fantastic ... Do you know other sports where 300 kilos men would have a chance to be competitive ..?That's why I like so much Sumo and this Dutch wrestler, Konishiki, Yarborough, Musashimaru can give to the sport in general another dimension, other possibilities ... It's really fantastic ! I doubt he is competitive. Doesn't promote sumo in good light when an ill obese man is helped onto dohyo and easily beaten by a real athlete. Or rather it was good he was easily beaten! Stereotypes in sumo are strengthened by the sight of such non-athletic giants. Musashimaru is and Konishiki was at his prime very much overweight but flexibility, training and strength was included in the package. Maru could survive quite agile attacks at 230kg and he has no problems getting up from the ground, Konishiki was able to do splits and went dancing disco. I am definitely in favour of huge rikishi but when the size is basically fat and the means to survive include massive girth and one technique then it becomes a rather awkward display of unfit and untalented sumo which does nothing good to sumo. If a rikishi weighs 400kg but is able to do keiko, to take care of his body (streching, warming up, muscle conditioning) and has some sumo skills, it is totally cool. Good metaphor here is the Miss Universum competition and any beauty contest in general. I can understand Miss Fitness kind of competititions where the participants have actually done something that they can compete about and they even have to show some fitness proving skills whereas regular beauty contestants have the face, breasts, height they have gotten except those who have the face, breasts and teeth they have bought. Oh sure, they have make-ups, diets, perennial smile, eye blinking, rehearsed answers to "profound" questions etc. that they have trained. Still the whole contest is so strange in such subjective area as beauty! Besides I have seen countless amount of more or as beautiful women in every day life than those in beauty competitions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted August 25, 2002 I am definitely in favour of huge rikishi but when the size is basically fat and the means to survive include massive girth and one technique then it becomes a rather awkward display of unfit and untalented sumo which does nothing good to sumo. If a rikishi weighs 400kg but is able to do keiko, to take care of his body (streching, warming up, muscle conditioning) and has some sumo skills, it is totally cool. Good metaphor here is the Miss Universum competition and any beauty contest in general. I can understand Miss Fitness kind of competititions where the participants have actually done something that they can compete about and they even have to show some fitness proving skills whereas regular beauty contestants have the face, breasts, height they have gotten except those who have the face, breasts and teeth they have bought. Oh sure, they have make-ups, diets, perennial smile, eye blinking, rehearsed answers to "profound" questions etc. that they have trained. Still the whole contest is so strange in such subjective area as beauty! Besides I have seen countless amount of more or as beautiful women in every day life than those in beauty competitions Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tony 16 Posted August 25, 2002 For me, weight isn't a problem. I like rikishi who adopt yotsu-zumo like Chiyonofuji, Kirishima, Kitanoumi, Takanosato, Wakashimazu, Hokutenyu, Onokuni or Kaio. So I like very powerful wrestlers and over all loyal. So I don't appreciate oshi-zumo. Konishiki, Akebono, Kotonishiki are, for me, very boring rikishi. Their sumo'style is poor over all the two Hawaians. For Musashimaru, Chiyotaikai, it's different because they can fight "very well" ( use yotsu-zumo ). But of course, it's just my point of view. But I respect people than Konishiki or Akebono for their career and willpower same I dont like their sumo'style. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chijanofuji 113 Posted August 26, 2002 Here's some info on the huge Dutch Sumo wrestler (if you can call him that) who was discussed here. Now, I normally don't follow amateur Sumo at all and before today I had never heard of him, but a quick search on Dutch web pages soon coughed up the info I wanted. Apparently his name is Ruud Hartemink and he weighs about 230kg, so nowhere near 300 as was suggested here. See his own website at: http://www.sumounionholland.nl/ Well, it surely sounds harsh, but this dutch guy is rather sick than a sumotori. He was shown in a half an hour report on Amateur-Sumo on German DSF. Obviously he has some bad disease. I really wonder if the poor guy is still alive. Anyway, a picture of him is to be found here The site has a bigger version of the photo Shiroikuma posted (as seen above). Unfortunately it's in BMP format, but still... When you click on "Foto's" it's the second image. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
