Bench Euro 2012

[Jejima 1,498]

Being in Asia desparately trying to stay awake for the next 2h...

How about option 2c) If we were to keep the number of choices constant, all we have to do is to break each half into two: 1st quarter, 2nd quarter, 3rd quarter and 4th quarter as well as the two halfs of extra time. The 1st quarter equals minutes 1 to 23, then 24 to 45, 46 to 68, 69 to 90 etc.

:-)

I considered this option too - but did not like it, as it is a bit inelegant. Therefore I would prefer to divide the time into 15 minute segments, or 30 minute segments.

[XiaoTan 93]

I'd prefer 15 over 30 if I have to -

And I don't think it is really inelegant. It is only the actual minutes that look odd because you can't divide 45 by two nicely. The principle is very simple (and elegant)

Edited June 28, 2012 by XiaoTan

[Achiyama 1,272]

Hi all - sorry for my long absence.

I watched the match last night, and then was busy this morning - and was too sleepy this afternoon - I am not in a good time zone for this competition - especially when it goes to extra time - and penalties ;-)

Okay some rijicho rulings....

As no money is involved - all line-ups are allowed (even if sent to the wrong referee) - as long as someone with authority was notified.

Regarding the accidental Chabonowaka double Portugal (2nd).....

This is a tricky one to make a decision on (especially now that the results are in), but I think the first instance of entry should be allowed as 'correct' - and the second (erroneous) repeat is therefore wrong, and so should be removed from its place in the line-up. Therefore the 'missing' Portugal 1st half should be placed to the last slot.

I realise that (after the event) this might help chabonowaka - but if Portugal had won the first half - just think how Kintamayama would have felt if the official decision had been to change chabo's prediction....

So, the official ruling is, the first instance of a double line-up is allowed. The second is not. Any 'missing' teams are added to the end of the 'chain'.

Edit: In the case that there are 'two or more' missing teams, they are added in the same order that they were for the previous round. If it is the 'same team', then the order is 1st half, 2nd half, Extra Time.

Have I covered all bases?

Jejima,

Thanks for your ruling.

[Achiyama 1,272]

I would like to ask you all your opinions (before I finalise the rules tomorrow), about the finals..... For the Bench World Cup, we used the same rules (apart from penalties) as we used for the semi-finals - as there was a 3rd-4th play-off match. But for the Euros, we do not have this second match.

My thoughts are....

1) (My least favourite idea) - we try to play with the same rules, but expect most matches to be decided by penalties.

2) We sub-divide the final match further... Either

a) 4 sets of 30 minutes. (1-30 mins, 31-60 mins, 61 -90 mins, 91-120 mins)

b) 6 sets of 15 minutes (1-15, 16-30, 31-45, 45-60, 61-75, 76-90, 91-105, 106-120)

I am currently favouring 2b), as I think the large number of 'draws' will not affect the overall game much - but will make results in 'normal time' much more likely. However, for a game to be fun and 'playable', the rules need to be as simple as possible, and I fear requesting players to divide the match into 15 minute segments might be a step too far....

Let me know your thoughts! (For the World Cup 2014 - if we play it - we will not have this problem, as the semi-final rules just about make the game 'interesting' - only for 'Euros')

My vote is for 2.a

[Achiyama 1,272]

I think for the next World Cup it might also be worth exploring to maybe not add any new teams at all (I think we got to add one each for L16 and QF last time?), but start the half-time rules already for the quarterfinals as compensation, because I recall the same "everyone's got every team" phenomenon for the semis there.

If we get 32 players (no means assured!) for 2014, then my current thinking is this (and please respond)...

...we don't want players to drop out, as they have no 'decent' teams left (as playing against drones is not much fun).

...but, we also don't want every player to have every team on their squad.

...So... My current idea is to allow just one extra pick each (for the round of 16), but with further special rules (and this is the problem - too many rules might turn some players off...). The special rules are that for the 'extra team' chosen, they 'break their chain' with a draw (if against a 'win' or 'draw' from a 'normal' team) as well as with a loss. But 'wins' count as for a 'normal' team. So a player who has lost most of their squad after the group stages can still have a chance - if they pick a good extra team - but that 'extra team' must keep winning ;-)

I am o.k. with the suggestions by Jejima, but it will be a good idea to keep adding of 1 (one) extra team.

Maybe after the 2012 Nagoya Basho it will be good to discuss the rules for Bench World Cup 2014. I know it's too early, but I think it will be better as the experiences from Bench Euro 2012 are still fresh.

[Harry 67]

Unbelievable!

[Achiyama 1,272]

What happened to Germany?

They ran out of gas.

And Mario Belotelli must be the Hero of the Azzurri, delivering 2 knock out punches.

[Pitinosato 127]

This defeat has one name: Joachim Löw !!

what tactical bullshit !

To play with only one man on the right side.

In the defense a big hole on the right.

In the offense nothing.

So every attack went over the left, very easy to defend for Italy.

And then Özil played one the right side, because the was nobody.

Özil, a playmaker, a left-footer, on the right side ! Oouuch !

No minor league Coach would have done such a nonsense !

This was a brutal destruction of such a good team, from their own coach !

No no no.... >:-( :-( >:-( :-( >:-( :-( >:-( :-( :'-( :'-( :'-( :'-( :'-(

Pitinosato

[Achiyama 1,272]

_{Here are the scores of the matches I gyoji-ed:}

_{For the CUP:}

_{CHABONOWAKA vs. KINTAMAYAMA 1:0}

_{Gyoji's comment: Smart move from Chabonowaka to put his © team at slot #1. His chain broke at Slot #2, but he KO-ed Kintamayama at Slot #1, breaking his chain.}

_{Chabonowaka, good luck at the FINALs for the CUP ! (Sign of approval...) And SORRY goes to Kintamayama (Consoling...)}

_{For the SAUCER:}

_{KAMEUMI vs. JEJIMA 1:0}

_{Gyoji's comment: Jejima had 6 Draws and his chain had never been broken, but he couldn't score a goal. Kameumi, who had his chain broken at Slot #2, needed just one punch at Slot #1 to KO Jejima. Ouch.}

_{Kameumi, good luck at the FINALs for the SAUCER ! (Sign of approval...) And SORRY goes to Jejima (Consoling...)}

_{Please, wait for the confirmation from the Executive Gyojis before you get drunk (Singing drunk...)}

[chabonowaka 2]

hi folks, here are the results for the matches i was gyoji-ing. of course, this is all presuming i understood correctly the rules for extra-time. (and i have a little brain, so i might have gotten something wrong. again.)

for the plate!

XiaoTan (Netherlands) vs Rannohana (Ukraine)

the first slot is out,

in the 2nd slot, XaioTan is broken by Germany, but Rannohana fails to score.

in the third slot, Rannohana is broken, so we go to extra time, tied at 0-0!

in extra time,

the first slot sees a couple of ties,

the second slot has Rannohana score a goal!

third extra time slot sees ties,

then XiaoTan ties it back up at 1-1!

immediately thereafter, Rannohana is broken again, but no goal by XiaoTan

then XiaoTan is broken, too, so that's it!

we're off to penalty kicks! (jejima?)

For the Bowl!

Harinezumi (Czech Rep) vs Mischashimaru (Sweden)

Harinezumi scores right off with Germany in the first slot, 1-0

but Mischashimaru comes back immediately and ties it up at 1-1 in the 2nd slot

then some ties

4th slot sees Mischashimaru broken!

5th slot sees Harinezumi broken!

we go to extra time starting with the 6th slot!

first shot is tie-tie, so no goals

then in the next slot, Mischashimaru scores with an Italy 1st period vs. Harinezumi's Italy 2nd period!

that breaks Harinezumi!

Mischashimaru wins 2-1 in extra time!

(i hope i got all this right.) (i've been terrible about this so far.)

(quick, someone check my work! also maybe my understanding of the english language.)

[XiaoTan 93]

Plate semi-final result:

Achiyame vs. Andonishiki:

Both have Germant(1st) in first position, so the chains are unbroken. Both score with Germany (2nd) but Andonishiki scores in 6th position having Italy in the team as his chainonly breaks in 8th position.

Result: Andonishiki wins 2:1

Bowl semi-final result:

Pitinosato vs. Rubensan

As Pitinosato has Germany and Rubensan has Italy. But Germany wins the 2nd half, while Rubensan's chain is broken, so despite having Italy Rubensan looses

Result: Pitinosato wins 1:0

Congrats to Andonishiki and Pitinosato

Note: Sorry for the originally wrong conclusion on the bowl semi! I hope I am right now

Edited June 29, 2012 by XiaoTan

[Achiyama 1,272]

hi folks, here are the results for the matches i was gyoji-ing. of course, this is all presuming i understood correctly the rules for extra-time. (and i have a little brain, so i might have gotten something wrong. again.)

for the plate!

XiaoTan (Netherlands) vs Rannohana (Ukraine)

the first slot is out,

in the 2nd slot, XaioTan is broken by Germany, but Rannohana fails to score.

in the third slot, Rannohana is broken, so we go to extra time, tied at 0-0!

in extra time,

the first slot sees a couple of ties,

the second slot has Rannohana score a goal!

third extra time slot sees ties,

then XiaoTan ties it back up at 1-1!

immediately thereafter, Rannohana is broken again, but no goal by XiaoTan

then XiaoTan is broken, too, so that's it!

we're off to penalty kicks! (jejima?)

My scoring for this match is 0:0 (need penalty kicks). My reasoning:

Slot #1: Both teams are removed.

Slot #2: Score 0:0 - XiaoTan's chain is broken.

Slot #3: Score 0:0 - Rannohana's chain is broken. Game over.

Hope I am right.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Achiyama

[Achiyama 1,272]

hi folks, here are the results for the matches i was gyoji-ing. of course, this is all presuming i understood correctly the rules for extra-time. (and i have a little brain, so i might have gotten something wrong. again.)

For the Bowl!

Harinezumi (Czech Rep) vs Mischashimaru (Sweden)

Harinezumi scores right off with Germany in the first slot, 1-0

but Mischashimaru comes back immediately and ties it up at 1-1 in the 2nd slot

then some ties

4th slot sees Mischashimaru broken!

5th slot sees Harinezumi broken!

we go to extra time starting with the 6th slot!

first shot is tie-tie, so no goals

then in the next slot, Mischashimaru scores with an Italy 1st period vs. Harinezumi's Italy 2nd period!

that breaks Harinezumi!

Mischashimaru wins 2-1 in extra time!

(i hope i got all this right.) (i've been terrible about this so far.)

(quick, someone check my work! also maybe my understanding of the english language.)

I think Harinezumi wins 1:0.

My reasoning:

Slot #1: Score 1:0 for Harinezumi, Mischashimaru's chain is broken.

Harinezumi's chain breaks at Slot #5, but he didn't score more goals at Slots ## 2, 3, and 4.

Hope I am right?

[Achiyama 1,272]

Plate semi-final result:

Achiyame vs. Andonishiki:

Both have Germant(1st) in first position, so the chains are unbroken to the end (I believe). Andonishiki scores in 6th position having Italy in the team.

Result: Andonishiki wins 1:0

I really lost 1:0, but I think I lost it earlier:

My reasoning is as follows:

Slot #1: Both teams are removed.

Slot #2: Andonishiki scores 1:0. My chain is broken.

Slot #3: No goal scored, still 1:0 for Andonishiki.

Slot #4: Andonishiki's chain breaks. Game over.

Hope I am right.

[Achiyama 1,272]

Plate semi-final result:

Bowl semi-final result:

Pitinosato vs. Rubensan

As Pitinosato has Germany and Rubensan has Italy, Rubensan wins 1:0

Congrats to Andonishiki and Rbuensan

I think Pitinosato wins the match 2:0.

My resoning:

Slot #1 Pitinosato scores 2 goals because he had his ® team Germany, which won in the 2nd half 1:0, Rubensan had Italy (2nd), who lost 0:1. Rubensan's chain is broken.

Pitinosato's chain breaks at Slot #5, but he didn't score goals at Slots ## 2, 3, and 4.

Hope I am right.

[Achiyama 1,272]

Hello players. Sorry if somebody didn't like my interference. I might be wrong in some of my reasonings, so sorry for that.

Of course the final words are gonna be those of the Executive Gyojis. Hold on a few more hours for Jejima's ruling.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Achiyama

[Andonishiki 171]

honestly... this is not easy to judge for someone with limited brain capacity, plus lack of sleep and too much beer after such a bad night.

Gyoji duties....

Germany ET didnt happen... so no chain broken, I assume

but Germany 1st was a clear loss...

therefore I cant find any goals in the line-ups

as all four chains are broken, before anyone got to Italy 1st or Germany 2nd

Jakusotsu vs Asashosakari 0:0

Doitsuyama vs Pandaazuma 0:0

pls correct me, if I'm wrong... I have no confidence in this results whatsoever

agree with Pitinosato... it's the German coaches fault, how can he take out the best German player, Marco Reuss ?

to play with only one forward is soooo chicken anyway!

and the defense was terrible... Lahm and Löw should retire asap !

the German media made such a hype out of "how great all the players are this time"...

so almost all German fans somehow expected the title or at least the final.

hangover time

[Achiyama 1,272]

honestly... this is not easy to judge for someone with limited brain capacity, plus lack of sleep and too much beer after such a bad night.

Gyoji duties....

Germany ET didnt happen... so no chain broken, I assume

but Germany 1st was a clear loss...

therefore I cant find any goals in the line-ups

as all four chains are broken, before anyone got to Italy 1st or Germany 2nd

Jakusotsu vs Asashosakari 0:0

Doitsuyama vs Pandaazuma 0:0

pls correct me, if I'm wrong... I have no confidence in this results whatsoever

agree with Pitinosato... it's the German coaches fault, how can he take out the best German player, Marco Reuss ?

to play with only one forward is soooo chicken anyway!

and the defense was terrible... Lahm and Löw should retire asap !

the German media made such a hype out of "how great all the players are this time"...

so almost all German fans somehow expected the title or at least the final.

hangover time

I agree with Jakusotsu vs. Asashosakari 0:0 - Penalty shoot-out is needed.

As for the other match - I think Doitsuyama wins 1:0, because he has his © team at slot #1 and scores 1:0 at Slot #1. Pandaazuma's chain was broken at Slot #1.

Doitsuyama's chain breaks at Slot #4, but he didn't score at Slots ## 2 and 3.

Hope I am right.

Edited June 29, 2012 by Achiyama

[XiaoTan 93]

Hello players. Sorry if somebody didn't like my interference. I might be wrong in some of my reasonings, so sorry for that.

Of course the final words are gonna be those of the Executive Gyojis. Hold on a few more hours for Jejima's ruling.

Hehe - I beat you to the correction by 5 mins :-)

Thank you very much for this - scoring individual halfs is not that easy - why does Pitinosato score 2 goals?

[Jejima 1,498]

Sorry for the delay - but have been busy with other things.

I can see that there is quite a lot of work to do....

I'd rather have a beer or two to keep me company whilst I work through it all (but am currently all out of beer...). Will be back soon!

[Jejima 1,498]

Back - decided to go with a glass or two of Australian red...

Okay, I still need to do the following:-

1. Confirm the real match results
   
2. Suggest a rule change for future Bench football tournaments (BUT not for this one.)
   
3. Check and confirm all match results (many thanks to Achiyama for again providing me with his tables (Applauding...) )
   
4. Dig out the list of penalty takers for any match going that far - and do the penalty shoot-out(s).
   
5. Announce the final list of matches.
   
6. Announce the referees for these matches.
   
7. Confirm the final round rules.
   
8. Update the Oustanding Performance / Golden Boot Standings
   
9. Announce which real team came '3rd' and which came '4th' (necessary for any final match going to a penalty shoot out).
   
10. I think that is it.... If I have missed something, please inform me whilst I work my way through the above list (and this fine red wine...).
    

Edited June 29, 2012 by Jejima

[Jejima 1,498]

The real results were as follows:-

Portugal vs Spain

1st half - 0-0 draw

2nd half - 0-0 draw

Extra Time - 0-0 draw

Italy vs Germany

1st half - 2-0 win for Italy

2nd half - 1-0 win for Germany

Extra Time - 0-0 draw

[Jejima 1,498]

My proposed rule change for any future tournaments is to treat extra time draws for ® and © teams the same as for (N) teams if no extra time took place. So with the actual examples from the real semi-finals, the 0-0 Extra Time draw for Spain and Portugal would be treated with the special cases reserved for ® and © teams (so ® can have its chain broken. and © can score a goal), whereas the '0-0 Extra Time' draw in the Italy - Germany match would be treated with the (N) rules for such teams (so an ® team would keep its chain unbroken, and a © team would not score a goal).

But this proposed rule change would only take place in the next tournament!

[Kameumi 1]

_{For the SAUCER:}

_{KAMEUMI vs. JEJIMA 1:0}

_{Gyoji's comment: Jejima had 6 Draws and his chain had never been broken, but he couldn't score a goal. Kameumi, who had his chain broken at Slot #2, needed just one punch at Slot #1 to KO Jejima. Ouch.}

_{Kameumi, good luck at the FINALs for the SAUCER ! (Sign of approval...) And SORRY goes to Jejima (Consoling...)}

My entry with only picking Italy sure is looking cocky with this beeing the result!

Good luck to you Jejima. You have one more chance to not get 'dead-last' in your own tournament!

[Jejima 1,498]

Saucer Semi-Finals

Pandaazuma 0-1 Doitsuyama

(NB, with the proposed rule change above - this match would have a different result in future games! As Doitsuyama's goal was scored due to having his Germany © team getting a goal in 'extra time'. )

Kameumi 1-0 Jejima

Saucer Final:

Doitsuyama vs Kameumi

Wooden Spoon Final (battle for 16th place ;-))

Pandaazuma vs Jejima

Edited June 29, 2012 by Jejima