Kintamayama 47,160 Posted October 12, 2003 8. What kind of sentences/words gyoji yells during a bout and in what kind of situations? 2pDoitsuyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaikitsune Makoto 210 Posted October 12, 2003 Since you stipulated "during a bout", wouldn't all that isn't "hakkeyoi" and "nokotta" fall out of this category? "Mattanashi", "teo o orosu" "mada mada" "yaawashite" "jikan-da"and "higaashi, Kaikitsune, Kaaaaikitsuuune" are all BEFORE the bout, no? My stipulation agrees with you. I was looking for gyoji's yells during bout yes but Doitsuyama just added some extra stuff like he did with many questions which was beneficial for forumkind. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amanogawa 79 Posted October 13, 2003 Since you stipulated "during a bout", wouldn't all that isn't "hakkeyoi" and "nokotta" fall out of this category? "Mattanashi", "teo o orosu" "mada mada" "yaawashite" "jikan-da"and "higaashi, Kaikitsune, Kaaaaikitsuuune" are all BEFORE the bout, no? My stipulation agrees with you. I was looking for gyoji's yells during bout yes but Doitsuyama just added some extra stuff like he did with many questions which was beneficial for forumkind. So when is the exact period of "during the bout" then? (Applauding...) I myself tried to answer this quiz and then wondered, "When is 'the beginning of a bout'????" Right after the moment of "Gunbai ga kaeru"? Or "right when you're stepping on the dohyo ( means, all those rituals prior to the 'fight [sorry, for lack of the better term! ] ' should be included in one 'bout' ) " ?? Or , as is said more than often, it could possibly start "right when you know who to fight the next day"??? I suddenly recalled - this happened in '68 ( which basho?? anyone? ) that one juryo rikishi Asaarashi lost even without "fighting". Asaarashi was up on the dohyo on time just fine, doing all those rituals and everything all right. When both rikishi finished the last shikiri at jikan-ippai, Aasaarashi was told by his foe to clean his sweat ( which could be slipperly and uncomfortable while sumo-ing ). Asaarashi took this "message" as "matta", and was walking back to to his corner. Then he noticed, on his way back to the corner, there was a dust from a broom on the dohyo. Picking it up, as trying to throw it away, he did step out the dohyo, which was reprimanded by one judge -- after a short discussion, Asaarashi was decided that he lost the bout because he was out the dohyo after the jikan-ippai. - So this incident indicates that 'a bout' starts even before the "gunbai ga kaeru"? Well I guess it depends on how the individual regards "one bout" after all? So now I'm interested....Kaikitsune-zeki, What was in your mind when you were thinking of this quiz referring to "durling the bout"? :-D :-) B-) B-) And I'd be glad to know how you forum members think of this. Thanks. B-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoseiya Yuichi 3 Posted October 13, 2003 I'd say a "natural" starting point for a bout would be the moment when yobidashi steps on to the dohyo to sing out the shikona. Then again I'd understand someone who claimed a bout starts with the tachiai. (Applauding...) Hmm, semantics... An anecdote for new sumo fans resembling the Asaarashi incident Amanogawa-zeki describes above would be Chiyotaikai vs. Takanowaka (I think) few years ago when Chiyo stopped the bout right after tachiai thinking it was a matta by Taka who also stopped his movement forward only to realize a moment later the gyoji had accepted the tachiai and the bout was on! He then pushed the completely unaware and confused Chiyo backwards over the tawara. It looked tragicomical. B-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 20,209 Posted October 13, 2003 An anecdote for new sumo fans resembling the Asaarashi incident Amanogawa-zeki describes above would be Chiyotaikai vs. Takanowaka (I think) few years ago when Chiyo stopped the bout right after tachiai thinking it was a matta by Taka who also stopped his movement forward only to realize a moment later the gyoji had accepted the tachiai and the bout was on! He then pushed the completely unaware and confused Chiyo backwards over the tawara. It looked tragicomical. B-) Wasn't there also a bout like that just a few basho ago (Gojoro vs. Kaiho or something?) where both rikishi seemed to stop short in the middle of the tachi-ai? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 47,160 Posted October 13, 2003 An anecdote for new sumo fans resembling the Asaarashi incident Amanogawa-zeki describes above would be Chiyotaikai vs. Takanowaka (I think) few years ago when Chiyo stopped the bout right after tachiai thinking it was a matta by Taka who also stopped his movement forward only to realize a moment later the gyoji had accepted the tachiai and the bout was on! He then pushed the completely unaware and confused Chiyo backwards over the tawara. It looked tragicomical. B-) And here it is if you want to see it. July 2000, day 5. http://www.banzuke.com/~movies/nagoya2000/...iyo_takawaka.rm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaikitsune Makoto 210 Posted October 13, 2003 I myself tried to answer this quiz Yes! And naturlich I will publish Amanogawa-zeki's answers here too. She scored 16.5p and shared the victory with Doitsuyama! I recommend people to see her answers to especially the Japanese language questions. I am sold in front of "emit your fighting-aura/spirit" as hakke-yoi translation!!! B-) 1. back muscles 1p Takanowaka? 2. Asanosho 1p 3. b. Asanowaka 2p c. Oginishiki d. Wakanoyama 4. b!! 1p 5. KaioU 1p 6. c 1p 7. Sekitori can choose whatever color he likes for his mawashi ( well, basic "rule" is that the color is recommended to be black or navy though :)). And the textile is silk. Lower rankers' ones are merely black and made from cotton. 2p Sagari is different too. Sekitori's one is nicely starched ( hence looks like bunch of sticks hanging down ), but not on lower rankers'. They look like just strings hanging down from the mawashi. 8. Te o oroshi te / Te o tsuite ( put your hands down ) Miatte ( meet your eyes ) Hakke yoi ( emit your fighting-aura/spirit ) Nokotta nokotta ( you're still in! / the match is still on! ) When two rikishis are moving, fighting aggressively, gyoji yells "Nokotta nokotta!". But when the movements cease, the gyoji cheers with "Hakke yoi" to stimulate and encourage the fighters. ( BTW, Noriaki* strongly insists - "The gyoji is saying, 'Tarako ttarako ttarako ttaa- ' !" Of course he knows "Nokotta Nokotta"... but certainly, it sounds like tarako ttarako ttarako tta. And "tarako" means "cod roe"!!!! :))) ) 2p *Noriaki is a math wizard 8 year old son of Amanogawa 9. Tochinishiki ? 0p 10. Hokutoumi 1p 11. Minanogawa? 0p 12. 2003-1985=18! 1p 13. That their favorite techniques ( tokui-waza ) get to be the same familiar style all the time -KaioU's migi-uwatee and Nada's hidari-shitate. Counterbalancing? Killing KaioU's outstanding power? Kai-zeki, teach me!! :D) 1p 14. From the start of the Meiji Era, I think ( 1868 )? Or the chonmage-abandon law enaction might have been a little delayed? 1.5p 15. Hiza no kega!!! ( knees!! ) 1p So Amanogawa scores 16.5p which equals Doitsuyama's score. Wasn't there also a bout like that just a few basho ago (Gojoro vs. Kaiho or something?) where both rikishi seemed to stop short in the middle of the tachi-ai? Yes but they did engage into full battle again and no significant advantage to either rikishi during the confusion whereas Taikai-Takanowaka was one-sided tragicomedy after mutual confusion. Well I guess it depends on how the individual regards "one bout" after all? So now I'm interested....Kaikitsune-zeki, What was in your mind when you werethinking of this quiz referring to "durling the bout"? Well I wasn't exactly sure how to think of it really. In my opinion sumo bout starts for real at tachi-ai because that is the moment from where on rikishi by default stop having independent influence on their success in the day's bout. Losing and winning become a physical factor at that moment. Amanogawa's example of 60s incident is too rare to have an affect on my view in this (Applauding...) But on the other hand I wanted to give free choise to participants by not defining the start of the bout rigidly and hence we got nice additions from Doitsuyama and now from Amanogawa (emit!)!! Thank you again for all 7 participants! It was fun making the questions and reading the answers! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fujisan 533 Posted October 14, 2003 Well I only tried two questions but at least I got them right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zentoryu 154 Posted October 14, 2003 Wasn't there also a bout like that just a few basho ago (Gojoro vs. Kaiho or something?) where both rikishi seemed to stop short in the middle of the tachi-ai? Yes, it was Kaiho and Gojoro. Both rikishi thought there was a matta and litterally stopped after the tachi-ai. The two rikishi stood perfectly still for a couple of seconds, as if they were posing for a picture or something. The gyoji shouted at them and it suddenly dawned on both of them that there was no matta and the match had to continue. They both fought for a belt grip, but Kaiho was able to deposit Gojoro to the clay with a Sukuinage. Gojoro looked none to pleased after that mess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
