Kintamayama 45,549 Posted May 10, 2003 Hello! A quick one as we get under way: What will it take for Chiyotaikai to be promoted to Yokozuna in May? Please vote at: http://www.dichne.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fujisan 533 Posted May 10, 2003 Simple just win the basho andhes gonna do it too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QttP 0 Posted May 10, 2003 Yes. They can say whatever they want now, but they won't be able to deny a guy with two consecutive yusho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zentoryu 154 Posted May 10, 2003 Yes. They can say whatever they want now, but they won't be able to deny a guy with two consecutive yusho. Since when has the kyokai ever done what we expected them to do? There's a first time for everything. I don't believe Chiyo has what it takes to win a second straight Yusho anyway. I could be wrong, but that's how I feel about it at the moment. If he does win, I'll be the first to congratulate him. Until then, I stand by my doubts. (Laughing...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Takanobaka 0 Posted May 10, 2003 (edited) I'm really not sure a weak Yusho will do it either. The problem with Taikai is that he's a great Ozeki, but to a certain extent wouldn't be a great Yokozuna. While he's inconsistent overall, he's marvellously consistent to the extent that he's able to rack up all the easier wins, while he does relatively poorly against guys similar to his own status. Hence, with all four Ozeki competing in this Basho, I really don't see Taikai taking it. Maybe he's finally able to get over that hump, and I hope I'm proved wrong (It's not as if Musashimaru wasn't in the same position for quite a while), but I'm not sure that he'd get a promotion until he's able to prove that he can beat other Ozeki and Yokozuna on a fairly consistent basis. All that said, I think he can get promoted if he gets a 13-2 Yusho with wins over 2 Ozeki and Asashoryu, or a 14-1 D if he's able to beat all of the above and lose to one of them in the playoff... Just a note for all of those who keep reminding me that a Yusho would be Taikai's 4th: remember that even Takanohana had 7 Yusho under his mawashi before he was promoted to Yokozuna. Other than Asashoryu, who has just been a dominant freak of nature, the standard for getting promoted to Yokozuna has been pretty darn strict since you-know-who.... Edited May 10, 2003 by Takanobaka Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tumppi 0 Posted May 11, 2003 What if Chiyotaikai wins, can there be more than 2 yokozunas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QttP 0 Posted May 11, 2003 What if Chiyotaikai wins, can there be more than 2 yokozunas? Of course. There is no limitation on the number of yokozune. Of course, you can't mathematically have too many at once. But there was a brief period not so long ago when we had 4 of them (Akebono, Takanohana, Wakanohana and Musashimaru). Someone who knows more about the history of the sport will be able to tell what was the maximum amount of simultaneous yokozune, and when it occured. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted May 11, 2003 What if Chiyotaikai wins, can there be more than 2 yokozunas? Of course. There is no limitation on the number of yokozune. Of course, you can't mathematically have too many at once. But there was a brief period not so long ago when we had 4 of them (Akebono, Takanohana, Wakanohana and Musashimaru). Someone who knows more about the history of the sport will be able to tell what was the maximum amount of simultaneous yokozune, and when it occured. There have never been more than 4 rikishi ranked as Yokozuna on the banzuke at the same time. There was one occasion when Terukuni retired and Kagamisato was promoted (or maybe it was another pair, I'm not completely certain from memory) in the early 50s when one could technically say there were 5 yokozuna, (since a yokozuna is yokozuna from promotion a few days after the basho and the retiring yokozuna still was yokozuna as of the latest available banzuke), but that is more a question of semantics. 4 is really the maximum number up to now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QttP 0 Posted May 11, 2003 I'm really not sure a weak Yusho will do it either. I hardly think a weak yusho is possible in such a strong pack. 12-3 probably won't do it again, but if it does, it will not be so weak either. The problem with Taikai is that he's a great Ozeki, but to a certain extent wouldn't be a great Yokozuna. At the moment it seems so. But if he gets the mathematical requirements and doesn't get promoted, because someone thinks he's not gonna do well, I'd be pretty damn pissed. While he's inconsistent overall, he's marvellously consistent to the extent that he's able to rack up all the easier wins, while he does relatively poorly against guys similar to his own status. Hence, with all four Ozeki competing in this Basho, I really don't see Taikai taking it. See, the thing is, none of the other top rankers really proved to be able to do better than Taikai. Beat him? Yes, quite a lot. But get an overall better record? Doubtful. Tochiazuma hasn't had a good basho since his triumph over Taikai. Musoyama is struggling with his injury, and hasn't really showed anything ever since his lone yusho 3.5 years ago. (But then again, that's almost exactly the time it took Taikai to get his 2nd. Hmm... Blah, not when he's so injured). Kaio is the one who would come out if it was only top-rankers in the run. But it's not, and he's overall even less stable than Chiyotaikai. Asashoryu? The last basho brought back all the doubts which the preceding two seemed to put to rest. Conclusion: despite terrible sumo, despite terrible training sessions against Asashoryu, despite apparent lack of depth, Chiyotaikai is still a favorite to take the yusho. but I'm not sure that he'd get a promotion until he's able to prove that he can beat other Ozeki and Yokozuna on a fairly consistent basis. But this really is the key point. The hypothetical case of Taikai going 11-0 and then taking a 12-3 yusho, losing to 3 of the 4 top-rankers would look VERY bad, and his promotion chances will be <0%. He must beat his foes. Just a note for all of those who keep reminding me that a Yusho would be Taikai's 4th: remember that even Takanohana had 7 Yusho under his mawashi before he was promoted to Yokozuna. Other than Asashoryu, who has just been a dominant freak of nature, the standard for getting promoted to Yokozuna has been pretty darn strict since you-know-who.... That was one the primary reason why I was saying that Shoryu was pretty damn lucky with that promotion: not only he has got relatively cheap consecutive yushos, but he hasn't got any but those two. That is not to say that he didn't deserve the promotion or that he won't hold up to the rank by winning more in the future. It just sounds pretty damn funny to call Asashoryu "Grand Champion", when even pathetic losers Kaio and Chiyotaikai have won more tournaments... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoseiya Yuichi 3 Posted May 11, 2003 There was one occasion when Terukuni retired and Kagamisato was promoted (or maybe it was another pair, I'm not completely certain from memory) in the early 50s when one could technically say there were 5 yokozuna (...) I seem to recall there were two such occasions in Fifties but since the search function of Banzuke.com is unavailable for now, I can't check it from a message of mine I sent few years ago to SML. ;-) "Five yokozuna" should probably work as a string to search once the search is again available. Anyway, Yubi is correct in writing that there never were five yokozuna participating in the same tournament. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoavoshimaru 0 Posted May 12, 2003 (edited) There's a copy of the message here It contains the whole chronology of that particular time in the 50s as well. Edited May 12, 2003 by Yoavoshimaru Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kotoseiya Yuichi 3 Posted May 12, 2003 Oh yes, that's Bandey's reply to my message that started that particular thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,549 Posted May 13, 2003 Well.. The volatile yet shrewd results of the last poll can be seen at: http://www.dichne.com/Archive.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
