Shiko no good for lightweights?

[Mark Buckton 1]

kenzo-san, I was recently talking to a European federation boss who claimed shiko were of no use to lightweights but softened that stance when talking about the heavier classes of rikishi.

Being in Europe yourself - Holland I understand, how do you feel on that and what is the general attitudein Europe to the standard Japanese methods of training.

I presume this will be something that will greatly interest Petr as well as myself as he is of course trained here in Japan.

[aderechelsea 125]

i wanted to get into the conversation but i guess it is better to open up a new topic about it ....

[Manekineko 200]

i wanted to get into the conversation but i guess it is better to open up a new topic about it ....

Your wish is my command. (Laughing...)

[aderechelsea 125]

i wanted to get into the conversation but i guess it is better to open up a new topic about it ....

Your wish is my command. (You are going off-topic...)

ok thanks,

i am interested myself in the methods of sumo training since i will be exercising the sport in a few weeks (details to be made public as soon as there are more concrete plans).

so ...

i suppose shiko for example helps in two ways. Strengthening the legs and obtaining better balance.

To tell you the truth i believe that my 2 year practice of capoiera helped me in the balance department more than shiko will ever do.i think that better weight handling can be achieved with alternative excercises ...

as for the other part i could use a lot of strengthening but the fact that i tried doing 200 consecutive shiko and felt little tireness doesn't convince me much for it's need ... (i could be doing it all wrong though)

suriashi and matawari are definately of good use though. Especially suriashi seems to be the perfect sumo excercise (combined with butsugari keiko). I see that if you learn to move forward with your body lowered down and your feet touching the ground at all times it will be very hard to be moved even by much bigger opponents.

matawari is used in many sports so i don't consider it traditional sumo training. I used to have a rather good matawari during my capoeira years)

the way i see it those 3 excercises help a lot in the transformation of a wrestler to a sumo wrestler. You get more connected with the sport and get a better feeling of it. Same goes for all those rituals. I like them because you get into the match and you understand that this is "Sumo". You forget all the rest you have practiced earlier in your life.

the traditional method is even more essential in the case of young kids that practice the sport. They will grow up thinking "sumo" and they will have the edge over others who derailed from other sports.

My major concern is the way you practice defensive or offensive techniques. Do you have sessions where the instructor says "We are going to learn how to do good inashi today" or you just do matches and try to work it from there. Anyone who have been to a real practice could help over here.

is it important to have a traditional dohyo and not those plastic ones? does anyone have an idea what kind f surface you need to get the best results?

does the mawashis have to be "real" ones or could a piece (7m x 50cm) of hard textile do the job as well? I know it needs to have very little elasticity (??) but does it need to have any other requirements?

that's it for now ...

more questions/ideas later ...

[Petr 0]

Shiko is also a good streching exercise.

Apart from that the repetitive small shocks from dropping the feet probably make the body more durable. Do they?

[Petr 0]

To Aderechelsa

We had a serious copiera practitioner in our club. His sumo was spectacular for all the 'wrong' reasons.

[aderechelsea 125]

To Aderechelsa

We had a serious capoeira practitioner in our club. His sumo was spectacular for all the 'wrong' reasons.

can you elaborate on that? i am curious ...

[aderechelsea 125]

the fact that i tried doing 200 consecutive shiko and felt little tireness doesn't convince me much for it's need ... (i could be doing it all wrong though)

very likely. 200 shiko done correctly for a first timer would leave you unable to walk the next day. hell even 50 would have your legs like jelly the first time.

may be a first timer in Sumo but mind you that i do cycling evryday and play footbal regularly. The fact that i did boxing and capoeira in the past have given me athletic legs but really slim (a problem in Sumo i imagine).

That's why i wonder what are the benefits from shiko in the long run for someone who already has athletic legs ...

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Hi Adere-san,

may be a first timer in Sumo but mind you that i do cycling evryday and play footbal regularly. The fact that i did boxing and capoeira in the past have given me athletic legs but really slim (a problem in Sumo i imagine).

That's why i wonder what are the benefits from shiko in the long run for someone who already has athletic legs ...

I'll hazard a guess that shiko develops muscle that is most useful/practical for sumo. Although you already have athletic legs, the muscles used/stressed most in sumo practice & competition may not be as strong and have as much endurance as they could if you did more sumo-specific exercises. General fitness is good, but you may get more out of sumo if you do what the rikishi do. Not only that, but shiko may build muscle memory that will help you to adopt a more correct posture in keiko and tournaments.

Edited February 4, 2006 by Otokonoyama

[Petr 0]

To Aderechelsa

We had a serious capoeira practitioner in our club. His sumo was spectacular for all the 'wrong' reasons.

can you elaborate on that? i am curious ...

This guys was seriously doing copoeira for years. He even spent 6 months in Brasil to learn it. His ashi-koshi was very good. In sumo he was flying all over the place, using leg techniques which was really exciting to watch. It took several rounds around dohyo for some big strong guys to get him out while he was circling backwards. But it wasn't the 'correct' forward going sumo.

[Petr 0]

can we take it you are the head of sumo in your country? and which country is that by the way?

yes and the netherlands to answer your questions

I didn't know it was you. (In a state of confusion...)

We have met, right? England/Netherlands/Belgium, is it?

[Mark Buckton 1]

kenzo-san, I was recently talking to a European federation boss who claimed shiko were of no use to lightweights but softened that stance when talking about the heavier classes of rikishi.

Being in Europe yourself - Holland I understand, how do you feel on that and what is the general attitudein Europe to the standard Japanese methods of training.

I presume this will be something that will greatly interest Petr as well as myself as he is of course trained here in Japan.

interesting .........who was this european boss? then i will know what his track record is and can discussd further

thanks for the reply kenzo-san

will answer this off list as it probably isn't fair singling out a lone person's training beliefs.

[Sasanishiki 57]

So at last the lurker, kenzo is revealed to all! (Applauding...) (I knew all along, but only through circumstance, a couple of vague references and being contacted off-list a few times)

Yes Petr, you now need to show some respect!!

Kenzo, would love to hear more of your ideas in this section (don't worry, I'll correct the spelling mistakes while you work on your tan!) (Nodding yes...)