Kintamayama 47,159 Posted March 17, 2003 Seems he injured his left elbow today. Had dinner as usual at the heya and has no plans on going to a hospital, says Asanoshou Oyakata of Takasago-beya. Coupled with the right shoulder "aggravation" he is carrying from before the basho, I say he's out with another loss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gaijinohana 0 Posted March 17, 2003 I am one of the people that believe that Asa's problems have nothing to do with his injuries. He ascended to Yokozuna at a time when the people that would have really tested him were not there. Asa is not ready to be Yokozuna. Not now at least. Fun to watch. But not ready. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fujisan 533 Posted March 18, 2003 When are people gonna realise that a minor injury isnt gonna stop Asa? It was the same at the last basho and the one before but he won them,stop fretting he cant win every single one for the rest of his career,even Chiyonofuji didnt manage to win his first basho as Yokozuna,give the guy chance and he will shine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted March 18, 2003 I am one of the people that believe that Asa's problems have nothing to do with his injuries. He ascended to Yokozuna at a time when the people that would have really tested him were not there. Asa is not ready to be Yokozuna. Not now at least. Fun to watch. But not ready. I quite disagree on this, but I still admit that we don't really have enough info yet to say either for or against. Facts are though that Asashoryu didn't emerge in a period so much "easier" than most other post-war yokozunas have, strong or weak. Another fact is that the first basho as a Yokozuna inevitably is a tough one, both mentally and physically (because of the partying and time spent on other things than training after getting the promotion). I intend to later provide the list of "first basho as Yokozuna, Tamanishiki to now" that I fixed a few days ago, but already I can say that 1) It's very unusual that a shin-yokozuna takes the yusho (3 out of 30 or so have done so, 2 of them "weak" yokozunas as far as I remember) 2) It varies how well a yokozuna does in their first basho, and it's not even close to enough data to say anything of the yokozunas future career) 3) Apart from those going kyujo, the result of the yokozunas in their first basho have been rather evenly divided between 10-5, 11-4, 12-3 and 13-2 results. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Manekineko 200 Posted March 18, 2003 Let's not forget that Asashoryu junior is due in umm... one month? Maybe that also weighs on shin-yokozuna's mind. ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QttP 0 Posted March 18, 2003 Or maybe we should stop trying to make excuses for him or frowning upon every loss, or trying to crown him as the best/worst yokozuna in history based on a couple of bashos. Time will tell. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zentoryu 154 Posted March 18, 2003 Or maybe we should stop trying to make excuses for him or frowning upon every loss, or trying to crown him as the best/worst yokozuna in history based on a couple of bashos.Time will tell. I agree. We're not even through his first basho at the top rank. To pass judgement on him as a Yokozuna based on what happens here is a bit harsh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fujisan 533 Posted March 19, 2003 Whos basing it on two bashos Qttp? Ive always had him marked out for greatness even before he won his first yusho,based on his skill and determination. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted March 19, 2003 I suspect few really cares, but since I promised a list, a list it will be. Here are the shin-Yokozuna records of all yokozunas since the 32nd, Tamanishiki: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 47,159 Posted March 20, 2003 Well, I loved it and thank you for your numerous, excellent trivial posts. I am a fan!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gaijinohana 0 Posted March 25, 2003 I think my concerns about Asa are that he always seems to win in a way that is 'too exciting'. I mean that he never rarely seems to control a match in such a way that the outcome is known from the start. Takanohana and the Moose both lost/lose every now and then, but it is usually a fluke. With Asa you aren't given that Yokozuna sureness in most of his matches. Plus, it cannot be denied that he achieved Yokozuna status in a drought of true competition. Chiyo totally dominated him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
QttP 0 Posted March 25, 2003 I think my concerns about Asa are that he always seems to win in a way that is 'too exciting'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoavoshimaru 0 Posted March 25, 2003 I suspect few really cares Count me among the few :-) Thank you for posting the data. I too like to refer to more concrete statistics and numbers rather than just gut feel. I agree it's too early to judge Asashoryu as a yokozuna, but who cares? That's part of the fun of the boards and online communities :-D Some people just know for sure Asa will be the greatest yokozuna, others think he doesn't even deserve to be yokozuna now (maybe never), but the debates are exciting. I think the trio of Asashoryu, Chyiotaikai, and Kaio are fun to watch and will be at the ranks of ozeki and yokozuna for a good time to come. I love Musashimaru (as you can tell by my shikona), but the longer his injury drags on, the more doubt I have about him. I don't think Tochiazuma will be ozeki for very long. But back to Asashoryu: first basho is yokozuna is difficult, as the statistics show. There is much extra pressure, new ceremonies, etc. In addition, as others mentions, he is awaiting his first child, which is a huge deal. I think the next basho and the ones after it will be better gauges. If he goes 10-5 10-5 in the next two bashos, that will lower my opinion of him a bit. (Having a snack...) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gaijinohana 0 Posted March 25, 2003 I think the trio of Asashoryu, Chyiotaikai, and Kaio are fun to watch and will be at the ranks of ozeki and yokozuna for a good time to come. I love Musashimaru (as you can tell by my shikona), but the longer his injury drags on, the more doubt I have about him. I don't think Tochiazuma will be ozeki for very long. I completely agree. As a group Asashoryu, Chyiotaikai, and Kaio are a lot of fun to watch. I too am a big fan of Musashimaru and Tochiazuma, and I hope that they will return to their peaks. It's great to have these forums and thanks to Yubiquitoyama for the great stats. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zentoryu 154 Posted March 26, 2003 With Asa you aren't given that Yokozuna sureness in most of his matches. Well if you're talking about this basho in general, I agree with you. I think Asa's problem, in a nutshell, was nerves. At no point during the first week (when he surrendered the two kin-boshi) did he look comfortable. Even in his wins, he seemed hesitant and unsure of himself. As Zenjimoto wrote in his commentary on another list, he didn't seem to have that same "fire in his eyes" as he normally does. It was only during the second week that he seemed to relax a little and show flashes of the rikishi he was during the last two basho. One thing we learned in recent months about Asashoryu is the tremendous fighting spirit he has. He gets mad when he losses in practice! Can you imagine how he must have felt after losing to both Kaio and Chiyotaikai? (Nervous...) I have a feeling Asa is counting the days until he can step back up onto the dohyo and have another go at these two. I look forward to seeing those bouts. :-) Plus, it cannot be denied that he achieved Yokozuna status in a drought of true competition. I don't think anyones denying that. Most new Yokozuna rise to the rank when other Yokozuna or top rankers have either retired or faded. Akebono was promoted at a time when there were no Yokozuna and only a couple of Ozeki, Konishiki and Kirishima, who were fading. Musashimaru was promoted at a time when Takanohana, Wakanohana and Akebono were non-factors due to injury. They turned out pretty well, hopefully Asashoryu will also. :-D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoavoshimaru 0 Posted March 26, 2003 Akebono was promoted at a time when there were no Yokozuna and only a couple of Ozeki, Konishiki and Kirishima, who were fading.Musashimaru was promoted at a time when Takanohana, Wakanohana and Akebono were non-factors due to injury. It is interesting that both Akebono and Musashimaru are both the opposite type of rikishi than Asashoryu: big big men, very strong, yorikiri/oshidashi. Asashoryu is about speed, technique, agility. What are the stats on the highest number of kinboshi given up by a yokozuna in a tournament? I know Asa gave up 2 in this basho, but that can't be the record... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,259 Posted March 26, 2003 What are the stats on the highest number of kinboshi given up by a yokozuna in a tournament? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoavoshimaru 0 Posted March 26, 2003 Thank you Doitsuyama-zeki :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
