Does THE tate-yobidashi have one or two matches?

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

I started wondering about something and while I do think I recall the answer, it's not really possible to check right now, so does anyone know for sure:

When there is a tate-yobidashi (currently the highest ranked yobidashi is of the "second rank", fuku-tateyobidashi), does he take the two last matches of the day, or as the head gyoji (Kimura Shonosuke) only the last match of the day? :-P

PS: I recommend anyone to take a look at Musashiryu-Kotokanyu today to see a text-book Utchari ;-)

Edited March 18, 2005 by Yubiquitoyama

[Yoavoshimaru 0]

IIRC it depends on the number of yokozuna: if there's a tate-yobidashi, he must handle all yokozuna matches. (The same thing holds for the currently highest ranked yobidashi, which as you pointed out is 2nd rank). So right now it's 1 match, Asashoryu's.

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

IIRC it depends on the number of yokozuna: if there's a tate-yobidashi, he must handle all yokozuna matches.  (The same thing holds for the currently highest ranked yobidashi, which as you pointed out is 2nd rank).  So right now it's 1 match, Asashoryu's.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, there is no tate-yobidashi right now, and the fuku-tate-yobidashi who is present indeed handles two matches, which is the reason I ask. For gyoji, Kimura Shonosuke always has exactly one match, regardless of number of Yokozuna matches, and Shikimori Inosuke has two matches, again regardless of the number of Yokozuna matches. I think (but I'm not entirely certain) that when the top gyoji is absent, the one who takes his place (Kimura Shonosuke or even one of the Sanyaku-kaku) only has one match, which makes me suspect that the tate-yobidashi actually has two matches regardless, but I'm not sure. I also think I saw that the gyoji and yobidashi did not handle exactly the same matches even when there was a tate-yobidashi (each yobidashi having one match with one gyoji and one with another in Makunouchi, because of the first gyoji having only one match), but again I am not entirely sure. Just throwing out the question to see if I can get some confirmation ;-)

Btw, welcome back. Haven't seen you in a while! :-P

Edited March 18, 2005 by Yubiquitoyama

[Doitsuyama 1,194]

Well, I already wondered for a while why the gyoji/yobidashi pairings (which are written for each bout in the Japanese kekka pages for Juryo and Makuuchi) aren't in sync (same gyoji and yobidashi for each bout) anymore, but shifted by one. Now I understand that this happened because there isn't a reigning tate-yobidashi. To answer your question: Yes, the tate-yobidashi only had duty during the last bout, and all other yobidashi and gyoji worked together for two bouts in Makuuchi and Juryo. Nowadays each gyoji/yobidashi combo only lasts one bout than one of them changes.

[Yoavoshimaru 0]

Hmm, yeah, I see that I was confused by the fuku-tate-yobidashi situation as well.

I've been gone for a while, yes, and I anticipate my posting rate to remain negligible. School has been consuming most of my awake time. It's surprising (maybe ;)), but I have less time to surf and watch sumo nowadays (not to mention play online...) than I did when I had a full-time job... (Shaking head...)

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

Well, I already wondered for a while why the gyoji/yobidashi pairings (which are written for each bout in the Japanese kekka pages for Juryo and Makuuchi) aren't in sync (same gyoji and yobidashi for each bout) anymore, but shifted by one. Now I understand that this happened because there isn't a reigning tate-yobidashi. To answer your question: Yes, the tate-yobidashi only had duty during the last bout, and all other yobidashi and gyoji worked together for two bouts in Makuuchi and Juryo.  Nowadays each gyoji/yobidashi combo only lasts one bout than one of them changes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great, thanks! (Sign of approval)

On a different note, I wonder when the fuku-tateyobidashi will be deemed worthy and experienced enough to become tate-yobidashi. It was an unusually large jump in age between the now retired tate-yobidashis and the current fuku-tateyobidashi, so the current one is just around 55. Hardly a grown-up yet (Shaking head...)

Actually, there's another jump to the next in-line as well, who is another 8 years younger. It seems to me to be bigger gaps than would be expected, so possibly some of the yobidashi in those generations have quit (intentionally or not...)

EDIT: The last four tate-yobidashi all got promoted at 61 years of age or older, but in all those cases it was not a matter of choice, but rather of necessity (already an active tate-yobidashi). Even by "fuku-tateyobidashi standards" the current one is very young.

Edited March 18, 2005 by Yubiquitoyama

[Ryukaze 0]

Wonder if he and Asashoryu are good buds by now? lol "Hey good luck today Asashoryu-zeki" "Thanks bro". lol (or something of the sort....)

[Burainoan 0]

On the promotion issue, Itachiyama and i spoke to Takuro about that last year, and his comment was that both he and Hideo were too young yet. if memory serves, his guess was that it would likely be about two or three years or so before the Kyokai made their respective promotions official.

also, i checked some of my old torikumi-hyo, and the staggering of the yobidashi and gyoji between torikumi does indeed appear to be related to the absence of a tate-yobidashi. from what i saw, it also seems to happen if there is no Kimura Shonosuke. maybe also if there is no Shikimori Inosuke, but i only skimmed, so i can't confirm that one.

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

On the promotion issue, Itachiyama and i spoke to Takuro about that last year, and his comment was that both he and Hideo were too young yet.  if memory serves, his guess was that it would likely be about two or three years or so before the Kyokai made their respective promotions official.

also, i checked some of my old torikumi-hyo, and the staggering of the yobidashi and gyoji between torikumi does indeed appear to be related to the absence of a tate-yobidashi.  from what i saw, it also seems to happen if there is no Kimura Shonosuke.  maybe also if there is no Shikimori Inosuke, but i only skimmed, so i can't confirm that one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the extra info. (Sign of approval)

There is no reason there will be any staggering with a missing Shikimori Inosuke though, since he always referees two bouts. Kimura Shonosuke has one bout, and obviously the tate-yobidashi has as well, but all other gyoji and yobidashi in the top division have two bouts, so if anyone of them is missing, it will only change the actual gyoji/yobidashi, not the "staggering between torikumi".