Asashosakari 19,668 Posted October 20, 2003 One might argue that a 13-2 jun-yusho is indicative of a non-competitive makuuchi division, rather than a competitive one. A 13-2 jun-yusho indicates at least two dominating performers, and the rest of division being mediocre. Okay, "competitive at a high level". B-) However, surely "at least two" dominating rikishi would be a more competitive situation than having just one who gets (almost) all the yusho while the rest are vying for an 11-4 jun-yusho, as we have now? :-/ And it could just as well be different rikishi who go 13-2 each basho, although I guess it's unlikely to be more than 3 or maybe 4 on an ongoing basis. Contrast with a hypothetical (I know this is highly unlikely) 9-6 yusho. No one is dominating, but the makuuchi division is extremely competitive as a whole. Well, I'd call that "universally mediocre", not competitive. :-P I get what you're meaning, though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yubiquitoyama 4 Posted October 20, 2003 (edited) One might argue that a 13-2 jun-yusho is indicative of a non-competitive makuuchi division, rather than a competitive one. Edited October 20, 2003 by Yubiquitoyama Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,668 Posted October 21, 2003 (edited) C'mon guys, stop pointing out that I've made a crappy argument. :-P Or rather, that I've phrased it so badly that one can drive a truck through it. :-P Let's try again, hope I'll be making more sense now... I tend to see constant high records as a sign of low overall competition rather than high. Even if there are 3,4, even 5 competitive rikishi, if they don't lose to anyone else, the average in the division is probably rather low. Those five could of course still be extremely good. As Yoavo-zeki pointed out, the "ideal" situation for overall competitiveness would be all 40 guys having a legitimate shot at the yusho. But that's pretty out there, and I'm not too concerned with whether any random M09 or M13 has a chance to win the tournament. I'm personally satisfied if there are, say, 5 or 6 rikishi with decent chances of being in the yusho hunt regularly, i.e. I'm not too concerned with overall competitiveness in Makuuchi, rather with the yusho competition itself. One point I'd add on your assessment regards "constantly high records" vs. "constantly high records by the same group of rikishi". Yushos will almost always be won with at least a 13-2, so constantly high records aren't a problem per se - they're just a problem when they always come from the same guys (as back when the Futagoyama 3 plus Akebono and Musashimaru were dominating), and then much more so if it's just one or two guys dominating like that. Arguably, there's just one right now (Asashoryu) who can consistently get even 11+ wins. Others reaching the 11 win plateau is the exception, not the rule. (Even among the Ozeki, sadly.) That might mean that there are 39 rikishi who are really really competitive compared to each other, but honestly, that doesn't mean a whole lot, if the 40th guy actually wins all the tournaments. :-P For what it's worth, I'd be perfectly happy to see a repeat of the mid-90's situation. Overall competitiveness was probably low (due to the large skill gap between the Yokozuna/Ozeki, and everybody else), but the yusho competition was pretty hot. Of course, as a fan I'd like even more to see a repeat of the 1999-2001 era when basically anyone ranked Komusubi or higher had a chance to win the yusho, but I'll take what I can get. :-) I think you are quite quick in saying we have a one-rikishi situation, for someone who has been so hard on the Asashoryu-fanatics though Edited October 21, 2003 by Asashosakari Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
