Pippooshu 1 Posted July 13, 2009 Hi guys, during the win of Asashoryu against Aran, with a wonderful Tsuridashi, I've noted a feet of Asa outside from the Tawara! Maybe pushed before than Aran falls down. Maybe! Because it's only an impression, but if this is it...what's kind of difference exists between Shi-Tai rule and Isamiashi Kimarite? PS: Sorry for my poor description... :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,259 Posted July 13, 2009 Hi guys,during the win of Asashoryu against Aran, with a wonderful Tsuridashi, I've noted a feet of Asa outside from the Tawara! Maybe pushed before than Aran falls down. Maybe! Because it's only an impression, but if this is it...what's kind of difference exists between Shi-Tai rule and Isamiashi Kimarite? PS: Sorry for my poor description... :-) Firstly it's called shinitai (literally meaning dead body). Then isamiashi isn't a real kimarite, but a "losing technique" - ok, that's real nitpicking. Now to your real question, there is a difference between tsuridashi and other techniques - with a tsuridashi you are actually allowed to go out first as long as you are carrying the opponent. So in case of a tsuridashi it's not really a question of shinitai (except that the opponent could be considered shinitai being carried but I don't think so as the match often is far from over). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pippooshu 1 Posted July 13, 2009 (edited) Hi guys,during the win of Asashoryu against Aran, with a wonderful Tsuridashi, I've noted a feet of Asa outside from the Tawara! Maybe pushed before than Aran falls down. Maybe! Because it's only an impression, but if this is it...what's kind of difference exists between Shi-Tai rule and Isamiashi Kimarite? PS: Sorry for my poor description... (In jonokuchi...) Firstly it's called shinitai (literally meaning dead body). Then isamiashi isn't a real kimarite, but a "losing technique" - ok, that's real nitpicking. Now to your real question, there is a difference between tsuridashi and other techniques - with a tsuridashi you are actually allowed to go out first as long as you are carrying the opponent. So in case of a tsuridashi it's not really a question of shinitai (except that the opponent could be considered shinitai being carried but I don't think so as the match often is far from over). Mmm...Interesting, but I've some doubt. Few basho ago, Kotomitsuki lost his match against Kakuryu, during a Yorikiri, for Isamiashi. Kakuryu was "dead", b'cause he was in the hands of Kotomitsuki, on the tawara. Without possibility of opposition. But while Kotomickey pushed him across the tawara, the Ozeki lean the foot out of the line and lost for Isamiashi. Why? It wasn't the same situation? It wasn't a Tsuridashi, but the oppositor was "dead"... :-) Edited July 13, 2009 by Pippooshu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doitsuyama 1,259 Posted July 13, 2009 Hi guys,during the win of Asashoryu against Aran, with a wonderful Tsuridashi, I've noted a feet of Asa outside from the Tawara! Maybe pushed before than Aran falls down. Maybe! Because it's only an impression, but if this is it...what's kind of difference exists between Shi-Tai rule and Isamiashi Kimarite? PS: Sorry for my poor description... (In jonokuchi...) Firstly it's called shinitai (literally meaning dead body). Then isamiashi isn't a real kimarite, but a "losing technique" - ok, that's real nitpicking. Now to your real question, there is a difference between tsuridashi and other techniques - with a tsuridashi you are actually allowed to go out first as long as you are carrying the opponent. So in case of a tsuridashi it's not really a question of shinitai (except that the opponent could be considered shinitai being carried but I don't think so as the match often is far from over). Mmm...Interesting, but I've some doubt. Few basho ago, Kotomitsuki lost his match against Kakuryu, during a Yorikiri, for Isamiashi. Kakuryu was "dead", b'cause he was in the hands of Kotomitsuki, on the tawara. Without possibility of opposition. But while Kotomickey pushed him across the tawara, the Ozeki lean the foot out of the line and lost for Isamiashi. Why? It wasn't the same situation? It wasn't a Tsuridashi, but the oppositor was "dead"... :-) To be "dead" in the sense of shinitai, there needs to be a lot more than just being unable to avoid a yorikiri loss. Shinitai usually is applied when the losing rikishi is flying in the air, sure to hit the ground, and the winner over him is protecting him by extending his hand to the ground, thereby touching it a little bit earlier. Then he gets the win on cause of the loser being shinitai. Losing with yorikiri is a far cry from that kind of "dead body". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pippooshu 1 Posted July 13, 2009 Ok! Perfect! I've understood! Many thanks, Doitsu! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Washuyama 662 Posted July 13, 2009 Shinitai usually is applied when the losing rikishi is flying in the air, sure to hit the ground, and the winner over him is protecting him by extending his hand to the ground, thereby touching it a little bit earlier. Then he gets the win on cause of the loser being shinitai. I've got a picture somewhere of Ozeki Takanohana (the father) winning this way. I'll see if can find it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
