HenryK

Last year a majority of posters selected Hakuho vs. Asashoryu on seshuraku of Hatsu basho as ozumo bout of 2008. Some also chose for the spectacular utchari. This year my vote goes to Asashoryu vs. Hakuho kettei-sen of Aki basho. (from 1:00, I could not find a stand-alone clip on youtube) Others?

It maybe a bit better than its peers, but with (only) 55 wins he is still below the 10 per basho that is supposed to separate the strong from the weak. This is because the list counts only bouts against Y-S3. Counting everything Kotooshu had 61 wins this year, or 10.2 per basho.

Less than 20 bouts. But the stats are 6-12 (33%), 0-2, 2-3, 4-7.

End-year rankings updated 2002-2009 # End-09 End-08 End-07 End-06 End-05 End-04 End-03 End-02 1 Hakuho Hakuho Hakuho Asashoryu Asashoryu Asashoryu Asashoryu Asashoryu 2 Asashoryu Harumafuji Chiyotaikai Hakuho Kotooshu Kaio Wakanosato Chiyotaikai 3 Harumafuji Kotomitsuki Harumafuji Miyabiyama Tochiazuma Wakanosato Chiyotaikai Musashimaru 4 Kotooshu Kisenosato Kotomitsuki Tochiazuma Hakuho Chiyotaikai Kaio Wakanonsato 5 Baruto Kotooshu Tokitenku Kotooshu Kotomitsuki Kotomitsuki Tochinonada Kaio 6 Kaio Asashoryu Kaio Chiyotaikai Chiyotaikai Miyabiyama Kyokotenho Musoyama 7 Kakuryu Toyonoshima Asashoryu Kotomitsuki Miyabiyama Hakuho Tosanoumi Tochiazuma 8 Kotomitsuki Kaio Kotooshu Roho Kyokotenho Tochinonada Takamisakari Tosanoumi 9 Kisenosato Kotoshogiku Aminishiki Kisenosato Kaio Tamanoshima Tosanoumi Kotomitsuki 10 Goeido Aminishiki Kotoshogiku Kaio Kokkai Kyokotenho Tamanoshima Takanowaka 1995-2001 # End-01 End-00 End-99 End-98 End-97 End-96 End-95 1 Musashimaru Akebono Musashimaru Musashimaru Takanohana Takanohana Takanohana 2 Tochiazuma Kaio Kaio Wakanohana Musashimaru Takanonami Akebono 3 Musoyama Chiyotaikai Dejima Akebono Akebono Kaio Musashimaru 4 Kotomitsuki Miyabiyama Tochiazuma Takanohana Takanonami Musashimaru Wakanohana 5 Kaio Takanohana Tosanoumi Chiyotaikai Tosanoumi Wakanohana Kaio 6 Wakanosato Dejima Chiyotaikai Takanonami Tochiazuma Musoyama Takanonami 7 Asashoryu Musashimaru Akinoshima Musoyama Wakanohana Takatoriki Musoyama 8 Takanohana Musoyama Kotonishiki Kaio Takatoriki Kotonishiki Kotonishiki 9 Tochinonada Tochiazuma Musoyama Kotonowaka Dejima Akebono Kenko 10 Tamanoshima Tosanoumi Takanonami Kotonishiki Musoyama Ashaiyutaka Kotonowaka

Update of the Abe-Index based ATP-style ranking, post Kyushu 09. Tochinoshin is a first-time entry into the top 20 (Wakanosato drops out). New Rank Old Rank Career High Rikishi New Points Old Points 1 1 1 Hakuho 673 633 2 3 1 Asashoryu 492 379 3 2 2 Harumafuji 350 390 4 4 2 Kotooshu 338 305 5 5 5 Baruto 248 240 6 9 1 Kaio 214 135 7 8 7 Kakuryu 186 139 8 7 2 Kotomitsuki* 184 178 9 6 3 Kisenosato 171 215 10 10 8 Goeido 150 117 11 12 5 Kotoshogiku 106 89 12 11 4 Kyokutenho 91 117 13 13 6 Aminishiki 48 78 14 17 14 Tochiozan 21 -26 15 15 15 Takekaze 9 -5 16 16 3 Miyabiyama 5 -6 17 14 2 Chiyotaikai -1 56 18 18 6 Toyonoshima -48 -47 19 27 19 Tochinoshin -68 -142 20 19 7 Tamanoshima -69 -66 * 2-10-3 at Hatsu 2009 yields a malus of about 70-80 points.

Pardon my impatience, I added the Yokozuna myself. Cheers, HK Shikona vs. Y-M3 Pct. vs. Y Pct. vs. O Pct. vs. S-M3 Pct. Hakuho 86-7 92% 6-2 75% 26-4 87% 54-1 98% Asashoryu 74-18 80% 2-6 25% 20-10 67% 52-2 96% Kotooshu 55-27 67% 4-8 33% 8-8 50% 43-11 80% Harumafuji 57-31 65% 5-8 38% 18-4 82% 34-19 64% Kotomitsuki 45-36 56% 3-9 25% 8-8 50% 34-19 64% Baruto 43-36 54% 0-10 0% 13-14 48% 30-12 71% Kaio 48-41 54% 1-11 8% 10-13 43% 37-17 69% Kakuryu 35-32 52% 0-9 0% 10-14 42% 25-9 74% Kisenosato 36-40 47% 1-9 10% 13-12 52% 22-19 54% Kotoshogiku 31-36 46% 0-10 0% 5-9 36% 26-17 60% Goeido 31-38 45% 0-8 0% 12-13 48% 19-17 53% Kyokutenho 30-41 42% 0-10 0% 6-18 25% 24-13 65% Aminishiki 23-37 38% 1-7 13% 8-9 47% 14-21 40% Chiyotaikai 30-52 37% 1-10 9% 4-15 21% 25-27 48% Tokitenku 8-15 35% 0-2 0% 3-5 38% 5-8 38% Toyonoshima 9-17 35% 0-2 0% 2-8 20% 7-7 50% Takekaze 16-32 33% 0-6 0% 5-11 31% 11-15 42% Aran 7-14 33% 0-2 0% 1-4 20% 6-8 43% Tochiozan 18-38 32% 0-8 0% 7-13 35% 11-17 39% Tamanoshima 7-20 26% 0-4 0% 2-8 20% 5-8 38% Miyabiyama 10-33 23% 0-6 0% 6-10 38% 4-17 19% Hokutoriki 4-17 19% 0-2 0% 0-7 0% 4-8 33%

Nice work. I guess this qualifies as a sound 2009 rikishi-ranking . Would it be difficult to add the stats for Hakuho/Asashoryu?

Question: is this likely to have an effect on the number of Sekiwake spots at the next basho?

That is a very nice idea. If you can place the best amateurs directly in Makushita, then why should it be so hard to reintroduce ANY sekitori who has to get surgery to at least ms15, ms30 or some such? Well one problem is the vagueness of the suggestion. What exactly is needed to get that special treatment - just one basho as sekitori, 5 or 10? What kind of injury etc. etc. To be refined, of course. But the natural reference point would the the rank the rikishi held when he got his injury. The injury would also not need to be specified, the sekitori (or his beya) would simply notify the kyokai. In pratice, as long as the penalty is as severe as sketched here, no sektori would have an incentive to use this option unless he is forced to sit out at least two condsecutive bashos. Well the log-jam and young-rikishi arguments can easily be exaggerated imo. As long as the penalty is sufficiently severe I don't see this as much of an issue at all. After all, this is not about granting tired rikishi a free vacation, but about giving severly inured sekitori the opportunity to heal their injuries and then re-enter healthily some 30-60 ranks lower. How many sekitori would use this is everybody's guess, but I find it hard to picture that it would be more than a couple per basho. For such numbers it should hardly be prohibitively difficult to find slots without messing up the banzuke.

THIS! There are so many rikishi who share Tamaasuka's fate from the top of Makuuchi to the bottom of Juryo. Regarding wrecked knees Kotooshu, Baruto, Aminishiki, Sakaizawa, Kiyoseumi, and Chiyohakuho come to my mind. I don't think that's entirely the fault of the kyokai though. As mentioned especially those knee injuries would often take 8-12 months to heal completely (or even more for 150+-kilo guys I don't know) and you can't expect them to introduce kind of a kosho system that allows you to stay sekitori without fighting a whole year. I rather don't understand the rikishi (especially the younger ones affected) and their oyakata. Why not take a year off to heal completely, drop to Jonidan or wherever, get some lower division yusho and come back to Makuuchi/Juryo healthy. If you look at Sakaizawa or Kiyoseumi, they probably wasted their careers with their decision to keep fighting and barely hang on in Juryo all the time. They would easily be Makuuchi regulars with healthy knees... I for my part could picture and would welcome a kosho system in which a sekitori could take of a full year once or twice in this career and come back with a decent banzuke rank. With adequate penalty, of course, but without falling back all the way to Jonidan. A sanyaku-ranked rikishi could re-enter near the bottom of Makuuchi, for example, M1-M8 would fall to Juryo, M9-J14 would get a spot somewhere in Mk.

My unreserved approval, sir. (Showing respect...)

Other question: if he drops to S, does it mean there will be only one other S in the subsequent basho -- or will there be a S2E (or does it depend on circumstances)

Thanks. To me it seems more he changed the grip of his right hand (from the front of Hakuho's mawashi to the back) rather than release it, but it's hard to see from this angle. He clearly holds on with his left though -- this is irrelevant for the kimarite?

Even after years of enthusiastically following ozumo, I still struggle with identifying and naming correctly the kimarite. Well, yorikiri and oshidashi I manage OK by now, but everything more complicated.... ;-) So Asashoryu's win was called a sukuinage, which I understand is a beltless throw starting originally from an inside grip that is released before the throw is being carried out. But it seemed to me Asashoryu was working on the mawashi for the throw, hence shouldn't this have been called an shitatedashinage (or maybe shitatenage)? Apologies if the question seems blatantly ignorant.

My 5 cents: on balance yes. Happy about many good bouts, happy about the climax at senshuraku, also happy that Hakuho didn't win again -- some suspense in the yusho race is good for sumo. Happy that Asashoryu showed that stories about his death are greatly exaggerated. Happy that Baruto and Kakuryu got excellent bashos in. Less happy about the disappointing Ozkei performances, especially from Kotooshu after an excellent start, also unhappy about another gift KK for Kaio, but one can't have everything.

May I ask what kind of "punishment" could come out of this? As for the matter itself, I'm a little split. I didn't find Asashoryu's pose outlandishly provoking or disrespectful. He just expresed joy, and in a fairly subdued manner (this said, some of our local friends here claim in Japan this is all viewed totally differently. I'm not in a postition to assess this). If any other rikishi would have done this, I wish the YDC/NHK wouldn't make a fuss about it. BUT this was Asashoryu. He was on watch and he knew it; and I agree with others that he signed up for the rules of the game -- hence he should try to respect them. One wonders why this fella just can't get his act together. This could have been a beautiful moment, him winning a yusho when people thought he had fizzled out, and especially with the fabulous bout he put up at kett-eisen. Did he have to add a foul taste to it? No.

Update of the Abe-Index based ATP-style ranking, post Aki 09. New Rank Old Rank Career High Rikishi New Points Old Points 1 1 1 Hakuho 633 630 2 2 2 Harumafuji 390 431 3 4 1 Asashoryu 374 259 4 3 2 Kotooshu 305 289 5 7 5 Baruto 238 186 6 5 3 Kisenosato 215 203 7 6 2 Kotomitsuki 178 192 8 14 8 Kakuryu 137 72 9 9 1 Kaio 135 137 10 8 8 Goeido 117 140 11 11 4 Kyokotenho 117 125 12 13 5 Kotoshogiku 89 87 13 12 6 Aminishiki 78 89 14 10 2 Chiyotaikai 56 131 15 17 15 Takekaze -5 -32 16 15 3 Miyabiyama -6 -7 17 18 17 Tochiozan -26 -70 18 16 6 Toyonoshima -47 -30 19 20 7 Tamanoshima -66 -109 20 19 2 Wakanosato -67 -77

"Relief" was written all over Shotenro's face today.

I agree it is very unlikely Baruto will win even one bout against Hakuho in the next 2 years. I think it's pretty likely.

Well that's the trouble with the dead-body rule. There have been serveral decisions going one or the other way this basho without a clear pattern. I would call mono-ii more often in these cases.

They're still looking good.

Let's see...

And when would Kaio and Chiyotaikai have been compelled to retire, I wonder? As yokozuna, their single-digit wins and occasional MK (which I assume would have happened with our without Asashoryu) would not have been tolerated. They would have gone fusen before encountering MK, take of another basho or two, then would have come back rested and in better health and re-entered the basho race -- as Yokozuna can and often did. Looking at Kaio's recored, I have little doubt that he could have held himself as a Yokozuna until Hakuho's arrival. Chiyotaikai in 2005 is a little more doubtful, but maybe an extended break would have done the trick. Neither would have been a dominant Dai-Yokozuna a la Asashoryu or Hakuho, but then these are the exception rather than the rule, the past 10 years apart.

The counterfactual is unobservable, so one can't know for sure. But as a rough approximation, below are hypothetical results for the bashos since 2002/11 (Asashoryu's first yusho) until 2007/5 (Hakuho's Y promotion) had Asashoryu not participated, but all other match-ups would been just the same. 2002/11: Y: Takanowaka (K) J: Musoyama (O), Takanonami (M1) 2003/1: Y/J: between Wakanosato (K) and Dejima (M3) (Ketteisen) 2003/3: Y: Chiyotaikai (O) J: Kaio (O) 2003/5: Y: Kaio (O) J: Chiyotaikai (O), Kyokutenho (K) 2003/7: Y: Kaio (O) YOKOZUNA PROMOTION KAIO J: Chiyotaikai (O) 2003/9: Y: Chiyotaikai (O) POSSIBLE YOKOZUNA PROMOTION CHIYOTAIKAI J: Wakanosato (S), Kyokutenho (M2) 2003/11: Y: Tochiazuma (O) J: several including Chiyotaikai (O/Y) 2004/1: Y: Kotomitsuki (M4) J: Kakizoe (M5) 2004/3: Y/J between Kaio (O/Y) and Chiyotaikai (O/Y) (Ketteisen) 2004/5: Y/J between Hokutoriki (M1), Tamanoshima (M5) and Hakuho (M16) 2004/7: Y: Miyabiyama (M7) J: several, including Kaio (O/Y) and Hakuho (M8) 2004/9: Y: Kaio (O/Y) J: several 2004/11: Y/J: between Kaio (O/Y) and Hakuho (M1) POSSIBLE YOKOZUNA PROMOTION KAIO 2005/1: Y/J between Tochiazuma (S) and Hakuho (K) Note: Hakuho would probably have been promoted to Ozeki after this basho 2005/3: Y: Tamanoshima (M7) J: several, including Kaio (O/Y) 2005/5: Y: Kotomitsuki (K) J: Tochiazuma (O) 2005/7: Y/J: between Kotooshu (K) and Wakanosato (M2) 2005/9: Y: Kotooshu (S) J: Kisenosato (M16) 2005/11: Y: Chiyotaikai (O/Y) J: Kotooshu (S), Tochinohana (M14) 2006/1: Y: Tochiazuma (O) J: Hakuho (S/O), Hokutoriki (M11), Tokitsuumi (M14) 2006/3: Y: Hakuho (S/O) J: several, including Tochiazuma (O) 2006/5: Y: Hakuho (O) YOKOZUNA PROMOTION HAKUHO J: Miyabiyama (S) 2006/7: Y: Hakuho (O/Y) J: Tamanoshima (M10), Tamakasuga (M12) 2006/9: Y: Aminishiki (M3) J: Ama (M6) 2006/11: Y: Homasho (M11) J: several, including Kaio (O), Kotooshu (O), Tochiazuma (O) 2007/1: Y: Toyonoshima (M9) J: several, including Hakuho (O/Y) and Chiyotaikai (O) 2007/3: Y: Hakuho (O/Y) J: several, including Homasho (M4, who may have been K, however) 2007/5: Y: Hakuho (O/Y) J: several, including Kotomitsuki (S) This suggestst that without Asashoryu, Kaio would have become Yokozuna, and would have collected up to 8 bahos. Chiyotaikai may have gotten to Yokozuna as well, and Hakuho would have gotten there earlier.

My sense is that "boring" is used in three different meanings in this thread 1) Hakuho's sumo is boring. Not my view at all. I find Hakuho's sumo beautiful--flowing, both fast and powerful, intelligent, versatile. Utter fabulous when he works on the mawashi. 2) It's boring that Hakuho always wins. Well maybe, but that's not his fault. [As a side note, it's not true that a Yokozuna needs to be as dominant as Hakuho--he and Asahoryu have spoiled our expectations in this regard. A little stat I just did in another thread suggests that Hakuho is the most dominant Yokozuna of the past 50 years. In the same ballpark were only Kitanoumi, Taiho, Chiyonofuji, Takanohana II, Tamanoumi right before his death, and prime Asashoyu. But there were also 19 Yokozuna who, even at their prime, took a far smaller share of the pudding] 3) Hakuho is boring off the dohyo. This view I share -- his sterotyped interview responses that reveal no reflection whatsoever bear little interest to me. But obviously sections of the Japanese public see this differently.