Shomishuu

Me too! Excellent thoughts, James, especially this excerpt: If sumo didn't pretend to some higher purpose, none of this would happen. Setting yourself up as a semi-ascetic, morally unimpeachable, quasi-religious cultural asset is always going to cause trouble when the reality is a lot more prosaic. Since you live in Japan and I don't, I wouldn't argue the point endlessly, but I do wonder whether sumo set itself up this way, or whether the Japanese culture in general evolved to make it so. After all, many of the quasi-religious aspects of sumo were embedded hundreds of years before sumo transformed itself into the spectacle we see today. Be that as it may, you have raised - in my own mind at least - a much larger question. Let's say there is further evolution in sumo that erodes the morally impeachable religious element to the point where the yokozuna is no longer a symbol of quasi-divinity (maybe they change the rules and allow him to be demoted - or something...); and to the point where the oyakata is no longer considered culpable for a deshi's behavior or conduct; and to the point where the Shinto and Buddhist trappings are no longer visible; and to the point where rikishi of any rank can attend a baseball game dressed in shorts and a tank top with their hair looking any old way they want it, or for that matter they can compete in hon-basho in buzz cuts or crew cuts. In other words, sumo begins to look and act just like any other sport. In this world, I wonder if it will continue to thrive, or survive. I wonder who the fans would be, and what they would expect. I wonder if I myself would care anymore. I somehow think that I wouldn't. I'm not saying that sumo can't - or shouldn't - be changed. I am saying that some of sumo's bane (in some eyes) is also some of it's reason for being in the first place, and that if it starts to look like something else besides the sumo everyone has always known, that it will be in as much trouble as it is in today. I believe that as improvements are made, that some of its mystique must remain in place. Very tricky. As always, an excellent article.

Actually, one of the more intelligent and concise rants I think I've seen. Another "Why couldn't I have thoughta that?" moment - of which I have many. (Enjoying a beer...)

(Welcome...) (Clapping wildly...) (An idea...)

A small tip regarding the Excel spreadsheet in the Ozeki article: Go to cell C9 and then freeze panes (Window > Freeze Panes). It's very hard to follow if you don't do that. (Oops!)

I think that is what I was trying to say...about ten posts ago. (I am not worthy...)

Sumo is at its best when behavior is not a topic of discussion at all. Then we can talk about why the sumo is good or bad, or why yokozunae are winning or struggling, or who's up 'n' coming or sinking fast, or why so-and-so keeps changing his mawashi color, or even the changing color of Dejima's legs. Matta and henka are also cool things to hash out, as well as Homasho's tachiai (or lack of it) and kosho (or lack of it). Harite is something else that's puzzling - if it's such a bad idea, then why does everybody keep doing it? And if you think the current ozeki are so bad, how about comparing them to the ones from days of yore - you'll change your mind, I think. Behavior? Who needs to talk about behavior? Sumo boring? Never. :-)

I believe they are definitely tired of it, as the Kokkai over-reaction mentioned by Orion and Kinta shows. They will probably be in the over-reation mode for awhile, so now is not the time for any rikishi - especially a foreign one - to have an 'incident.' (getting tired myself now of having fingers and legs crossed all the time, hoping this is not the new normal...). (Gyoji...)

Since I've only had the real thing once, someone else could - and should - give a better answer but I'll just give an opinion. I think it tastes like whatever the cook wants it to taste like. You can use various combinations of sauces and spices to season the stew to your own liking; but it's kind of like what they call gumbo in the U.S., in that you can throw just about anything in there you want, although in Japan I think it's mostly of fish and vegetables. The one time I had it was in Tochigi-ken in the 1980s, and it was owned by the former sekiwake Mutsuarashi. It was unlike any other nabe I had eaten because it contained just about every kind of fish known to man (I exaggerate of course). The stew was very rich without being overly sweet. It was thick and rich and very delicious, and the only regret I have is that I insisted on finishing the bowl, which I was entirely incapable of doing. That's about all I can offer, except that I hope to have one more shot at it someday.

Thank you Fay. I finally got a chance to read the interview, and was very impressed with the Oyakata's humanity and openness. I was also glad to see his comment about rank not being everything. Most sumo books I was 'raised on' said explicitly that rank WAS everything. I can only guess that his comment reflects the many changes in sumo society in the last 10-20 years; although I would like to believe that the books I read many years ago overstated the importance of rank. Thanks again.

And here is where I feel we'll forever differ, and must leave it as we left it four years ago; for I feel that if he is trying to keep himself 'alive' longer than his aite, then that is a technique, often a very athletic one. It may be a struggle to name the kimarite, but that is often the case anyway. Thanks again for the fun. Signing off...

I absolutely agree. This is what I was alluding to in a prior post about starring some of these bouts in which I felt it could have been applied, or maybe was, or maybe wasn't... I had thought about making posts about these bouts as they happen, but figured it would probably be irritating to many, in addition to leading people to believe I actually obsess over the subject. :-) Henka Sightings yes - Shinitai sightings no. :-D

I won

It's amazing that the discussion still rages on the Asa-Koto bout as if it happened yesterday! I still remember the back and forth that Hananotaka and I had on the SML about it right after it happened. My disagreements on it are much softer and more narrowly focused than Paolo's, though. As a little aside, after viewing the slo-mo replay HNT has provided, I believe it's possible that the gyoji began to raise his gumbai because he believed Asashoryu was about to land on his back (i.e., no shinitai, just a simple matter of one rikishi landing first). There was ample time to 'get the story straight' before delivering it to the media. Maybe - whatever... On the doutai though, HNT is spot on, the shimpan were confused and wimpish. But that's got nothing to do with the big picture, the way I see it anyway. Over time, I've gradually tried to not see or judge sumo with foreign eyes, but have grown to accept it as a pure representation of Japanese culture and thinking, and therefore immune from the parallels that we foreigners instinctively draw on when being critical. I think I've done a decent job of that, but I'll have to say that despite years of trying, when it comes to shinitai, I'm a miserable failure. I still can't shake the essential conclusion that it's a flawed concept, despite having tried to confirm it. I even took to placing a star beside all the bouts in which shinitai was invoked, or appeared to have been invoked, in addition to those bouts where I thought it could or should have been invoked, even though it apparently wasn't. After all of that, I am still of the firm conclusion that it is not humanly possible to employ shinitai in any way that's remotely either consistent, predictable, reliable, sensible or transparent. I was still pulling my hair out every time I saw a wronged rikishi bow and exit down the hanamichi. I felt bad for him, and blamed it all on the men in black. I needed help, a little peace. (Yusho winner...) But now I can report that progress is being made. I'm de-programming myself and am mostly rehabilitated. I stopped rolling my eyes after these bouts about eight or nine months ago. And the dunce caps I used to see on the shimpan have disappeared too. I still feel the same way about shinitai but I also still love sumo, and now when the 'cheated' one departs the dohyo, I can just put a check mark beside the winner's name and say, "Wrong place, wrong time, pal...let's move on!" I am determined there will be no relapses! It's great feeling proud of yourself. (I am not worthy...)

Was there also a bit of panache/attitude detected (in a good way...)? Was it always there, or maybe Robocop is grooming his replacement?

One of the English language announcers (won't say which one... :-) ) said the mage pulling had to be judged intentional in order for a hansoku to be called. I thought intent didn't matter, but perhaps I was wrong. Said announcer seemed almost shocked that one was called. What's the real deal...anyone know? Thanks.

Well I guess that also describes me, at least for the next week or so since I'm supposed to 'report' on the proceedings for SFM and I'll be on the road during this time. Since I don't speak French and am severely tech challenged, what exactly do you do (I do have a Paypal account)? Do you have to donate every day or only once per basho? Do you put in any amount you want? Also, I haven't even figured out how to see ANY of the bouts for free - the site recognizes me ok just like always but I keep clicking everything in site and no video comes up. (I dunno...) (I dunno...) (I dunno...) It's such a bummer being cyber illiterate!! (Blowing up furiously...) (Neener, neener...) (Bart...)

I've never properly thanked you for it, even though I use it a lot...so THAAANKS! (Sign of approval...)

Hai, mochiron! (I am not worthy...)

It's entirely possible something like that finally happened. (In a state of confusion...)

Oh yes. Anyone else getting tired of these miraculous 8-7 records that the senior Ozeki tend to cobble together with amazing regularity? Not that I needed any convincing but I did some digging (from 1987 on) and came up with only three cases where a 7-7 ozeki LOST to another ozeki on senshuraku, and nine cases where a 7-7 ozeki BEAT another ozeki on senshuraku. (a few of the shenanigans were on day 14). Not as many cases as one might expect, but still a fairly healthy argument that what Henry is insinuating is in fact true. But I was already on board with it anyway. Unless all three losses involved two ozeki with 7-7 records fighting each other, a 9-3 record for getting a clutch win in a certain scenario by rikishi with the proven ability to get clutch wins is, if anything, a fairly healthy argument against yaocho. Although the correct answer is still "not enough data to draw a conclusion". "Not enough data" IS the bottom line, showing that the scenario doesn't present itself as often as people may think. BTW, in the three cases, the ozeki defeating the 7-7 ozeki had nothing more to gain; conversely in 8 of the 9 cases where the 7-7 ozeki won, the losing ozeki had nothing more to lose. I think it depends on the era and the rikishi, and is more likely to happen among those who have been fellow ozeki/rikishi for a long time. In a five-basho span beginning 1987.11, a 7-7 Asashio was 'assisted' three times on senshuraku by Hokutenyu, who had already achieved kachi koshi. After that, the scenario reappeared only once in the next 12 years. I'd like to continue going back into the 1980s - an infamous period for these theories - but now I have deadlines. Why do retired people have deadlines anyway... (Thread should be split if continued)

Oh yes. Anyone else getting tired of these miraculous 8-7 records that the senior Ozeki tend to cobble together with amazing regularity? Not that I needed any convincing but I did some digging (from 1987 on) and came up with only three cases where a 7-7 ozeki LOST to another ozeki on senshuraku, and nine cases where a 7-7 ozeki BEAT another ozeki on senshuraku. (a few of the shenanigans were on day 14). Not as many cases as one might expect, but still a fairly healthy argument that what Henry is insinuating is in fact true. But I was already on board with it anyway. But back to the idea of getting tired of this: If I were to be tired of this then I'd be tired of sumo itself, because it's never been any other way. If the practice disappeared there would be those who would say it was improvement or progress - myself included perhaps - but given the communal nature of sumo and the culture that created it, it's perfectly understandable. That's how it's always been - and will be - and if it bothered me that much, I'd just call it all a sham and turn my attention to something else. It doesn't in any way discourage me from following sumo and calling it (quoting KM) a beautiful thing. I think that it probably ruffles (per capita) many more western feathers than Japanese. Different eyes for different guys, I guess.

That was all that Kotozakura had done after the first of his two straight 14-1 yusho, leading to his promotion. In his previous three basho, he had won a total of 18 bouts, with three kadoban of his own in the previous nine basho; although he had won two ozeki yusho, albeit 3 1/2 years before. Andy Adams wrote in Sumo World's 2nd issue that just before his miraculous comeback, he looked to be at the end of the line. But they desperately needed another yokozuna at the time and felt they couldn't wait on Wajima. It would be somewhat ironic if his future deshi would be the first ozeki in 58 years to win two straight yusho and not be promoted.

Clarification, please? I think he is talking of Takanohana. No consecutive yusho actually, but very strong runs. I still think Kotooshu will be yokozuna with another yusho, even if "only" 13-2 (mind you that was totally the norm before Asashoryu, just look at Musashimaru). I agree that his make-koshi is a strong argument against it, but I only believe it when I see it. I agree with that. You have to go back to Chiyonoyama (Haru 1950) to find an ozeki who wasn't promoted right after two straight yusho (13 + 12 wins). In his case, it was his first two ozeki basho and there were already three pitifully performing yokozuna. I guess they didn't want to take a chance on promoting a newbie and getting another one. Interesting, he was promoted the following year after wins of 11, 8 and 14(Y) = 33 wins. They could treat Kotooshu as a 'newbie' because he came off kadoban - but I doubt it. It's a lot different now.

Hakuho (Sign of disapproval...) . Obviously, Asashoryu looks suprised and even smiled I think he was smiling because the physical nature (bumping Asa while getting up) of Hakuho's response to his shove probably saved him from more retribution than would otherwise come his way.