Shomishuu

Dish Network's TV Japan package works great...it's $30 a month. I tape it each night and watch it the next day as I'm able. One tip if you get that: In changing the commentary to English on the remote, you have to select "Japanese." Very wierd, but as long as you know.... :-)

Is it possible you mean Takanohana (the yokozuna) and not Wakanohana? From what I've heard in the stateside news on this topic, an athlete on steroids gets an additional benefit, in that it give him/her the extra stamina needed to extend their workouts beyond what they could normally handle. This of course means they would be able to "outwork" their competitors as they prepare for battle.

Almost a "virtual" bar. I don't know about shortening his career but if Kaio has a hard time getting over the hump TO yokozuna, he's going to have even a harder time posting yokozuna numbers AS one, what with Hakuho, Kotooshu, et al joining the ranks of the joi jin on top of the competition he's had to face thus far. Either way, his long term prospects are limited. I've admired him for a long time, but I am not hopeful. :-S

They used to say the same thing about Kaio; he was thought to be a perennial sekiwake but he eventually got over the hump. I think Waka can do it too. (In a state of confusion...)

Yes, no intai now for Kaio. It would seem embarrassing to give up on his goal at the peak of his game at a relatively young age when he still can fight on. Hang in there! >(Blinking...)

Since Hakuho had the hutspa (spelling questionable) to pull a henka against Hokutoriki on senshuraku of this year's Natsu Basho to deprive Hoku of the yusho (in his first makuuchi basho BTW), I say you are right on! (I have to grit my teeth to put "henka" and "honest sportsmen" in the same breath.) (No, no, no...)

As I think about the 40 some-odd years I've known about sumo, I can rarely recall fans saying they were living in glorious, golden-age times, and it seems they were often saying sumo has hit rock-bottom. Sports fans in general are very demanding because, being fans, they are always concerned about the "state of the game," thus there will always be something to be concerned about. Even as Taiho was worshipped as a living legend, fans lamented he was boring because he didn't need to do anything spectacular to win. After Taiho retired and Tamanoumi died on an operating table, it got so bad that the 1972 Hatsu Basho was won by M7 Tochiazuma with an 11-4 record. The only yokozuna was Kitanofuji who reportedly couldn't win because he liked Hawaii more than keiko. When Kotozakura got out of his rocking chair a year later to put on the tsuna there were complaints the people he beat didn't make their losses look "convincing enough." After that, the records of the "great" yokozuna who followed were criticized because of poor ozeki or poor competition, etc. Yet in retrospect, I think most fans regard the Wajima to Kitanoumi to Chiyonofuji era as very significant, and many times very exciting. The good times come and go and so do the bad times. But recognizing all of that, I'm only human and I do worry. Recently Kintamayama pointed out that the foreigners are crawling up the banzuke like ants. I worry that when they make up the bulk of sanyaku, the fans will accept them. In the end I think they will because the content of their sumo is very good, and if you are a sumo fan, you will see that and want to see more of it. The audience's reaction to the Tokitenku-Ama match yesterday is an excellent example. One thing for sure, if the foreigners are crawling up the banzuke now, in 20-30 years they will crowd their way into the Kokkai, and the face of sumo will probably change forever.

Kokkai looks better to me due to improved mawashi technique but he doesn't go there unless the bull rush gets throttled. The main thing is that rikishi are learning how to fight him, and take advantage of his bent-over forward-lean style, and use it against him. I'm impressed that he continues to broaden the scope of his sumo though.

Thank you all for your responses. I confess I am guilty of looking for evidence of something I would like to see: the shimpan applying shinitai in only the rarest of circumstances. I am hopeful this is what happened...perhaps only in my dreams. (Spooky TV program...)

I much appreciate the professionalism shown by my colleagues in not flaming me for the error in my original post. I stated that in both matches the shimpan declared Aite the winner. That is incorrect because in the Asa-Koto match the shimpan declared a torinaoshi. My gentle psyche owes you all a big one! (Sign of approval) So...I'm still left thinking that in both matches the gyoji apparently applied the shinitai rule and in both cases the shimpan refused to buy into it. Considering the different reactions among fans, what was so different about torikumi in the two matches? (Eating...)

I apologize for being a day late with this but I couldn't watch the Day 2 video timely. Anyway, after watching all the replays of the Tochiazuma-Kokkai match, I was struck by the similarities between it and the much-discussed Asashoryu-Kotonowaka match in Nagoya (I think). Please, no more knock-down drag-outs about the merits of shinitai/kaibite, etc. but I do wonder how are these two matches different? In both matches, the (eventual) loser initiated an arm throw, his aite became completely airborne and helpless and landed on his back. Loser touched down first with his hand before Aite landed on his back. Loser receives the gyoji's gumbai. Mono ii ensues. Shimpan overrule the gyoji and declare Aite the winner. After Asa-Koto, all heck breaks loose on SML, slings and arrows are hurled, etc., and the discussion rages for weeks while the Tochi-Kokkai result generates ... silence. I want to believe that the different reactions have nothing to do with how some people feel about Asashoryu so I want to know what's different about these two matches?? (Applauding...)

Exactly. I've always wondered why anyone leans into him when he never pushes anyone out anyway. Maybe Toki's opponents should pre-soak their faces in salt brine or something to toughen up so they can just stand straight up and take it till he tires out. Since he's starting to fade, maybe that's what they're doing??

I really want to thank all of you that put out the time and energy into getting this forum going and keeping it going. SF and SML are both great because where I live I don't know a single soul who cares about sumo so this is my only venue for sharing and venting, etc. I'm retired from the U.S. Navy and now retired for real...originally from Missouri and now live in Washington state. I joined several months ago and have been on SML for a little over a year. Got into sumo in 1963 as a U.S. Navy youngster and have followed it off and on since then. Thanks to TV Japan and Dish Network I am able to record most every makuuchi bout, except for the first three or four each day and the first half of the action on senshuraku. In observing comments by other members who can only see the torikumi once in a while, I feel very blessed. I have no idea why I like sumo and it's really unexplainable to someone who has never had at least some regular doses. I was single almost the whole time I was in Japan and liked to go to Japanese bars and eat yakitori and watch sumo. It was great fun learning a little nihongo and showing off my sumo smarts. The fact that I now know I wasn't nearly as smart as I thought I was doesn't diminish those great memories. I think it's just that I really enjoy Japanese culture and the people never seem more Japanese than when they are watching sumo. I do enjoy the dignified ritual but I also recognize that all cultures evolve and so sumo will surely change as much in the next 50 years as it has in the last 50. I hope I would still recognize it. Maybe if I start eating more tofu and kinpira I can be around to know for sure. Still, I have generally supported the Yokoshin, except for that left-handed kensho business. :-D I love reading all the sumo nitty gritty dug up by our members but confess I don't have the patience to do it myself...I guess I'm kind of a big picture guy...in fact there are only three things I really wonder about: (1) How Kintamayama and Jonosuke get all that fresh info from halfway around the world? (2) When the Sumo World issues I paid for three years ago will arrive? (3) How anyone ever loses to Toki? I'm not a big poster, despite being retired with theoretically a lot of time. I do a lot of volunteer work and my wife and I are often out of the house together. Although Japanese, she's not a sumo fan but does tolerate my daily babble during each basho, and I have figured out when to change the subject. But we really enjoy being together so the time I devote to what I call my giddy little diversion is somewhat limited. Seems I barely have time to watch the daily coverage I've recorded and devise my BS selections on time, last time being my maiden voyage and as you can tell, my BS schtick needs a lot of work. Last year in the Mainichi Daily News Readers Forum I was very critical of Asashoryu's behavior and caught flak from their readers, and this year I have been forgiving of him on SML and caught some more. Since I got it from both the right and the left, I'm tempted to think I must have it about right...but that sounds a little smug so I've got to watch that. I've also been tempted from time to time to write a book about sumo but I haven't hit on a theme yet - it would have to be something I could research from here since I know I'll never spend much time in Japan anymore. I definitely don't want to just compile factoids...seems like that angle's been covered well enough. What's really nice about SF is each can enjoy it in their own way and pick which parts to jump into. The pictures are also fabulous. Thanks again to all who make it so great! (Sign of approval)

I should have said that the stigma is no longer important to the rikishi. I've always been a card-carrying henka-hater, and the reason I believe the rikishi don't care about the stigma anymore is that I used to carry in my head a "list" of those who never did it. The list used to include Kaio, Tosanoumi, Kyokutenho, Kotonowaka and a few others, all of whom use it occasionally now. Almost everyone - including ozeki and yokozuna - does it, with some sanyaku doing it almost every basho. The young turks on the way up henka right from the git-go, not even recognizing any stigma. Since the Kyokai won't address the issue with any teeth, usage is now rampant so I've decided to just "give it up" and swallow the fact that henka is acceptable to the entire world of sumo; which is a major adjustment for someone who used to call Wakanohana III "Ten-no-Henka." It is their sport after all, so it is I who must adjust. Anyway, my original thought here was not about hatakikomi, it was about whether there is any actual rule regarding henka-like activity at the tachiai. I'm not aware of any and that's why I posed the question after hearing the english commentary alluded to on my original post. Unless someone knows something to the contrary, I'm assuming there is no rule.

Here's a conversation heard on the english coverage of NHK's Day 13 sumo telecast, regarding Hayateumi's leaping henka (win) against Takekaze: Dave Wiggins: "As long as you're grabbing while you're leaping, you're not trying to avoid contact." Lynn Matsuoka's response: "The rule is that you have to make contact as you're flying by." Is there a rule, written or unwritten, regarding henka? Does it matter, legally, morally, ethically, etc. whether the practitioner makes contact or not as they "fly by?" If there is any rule, can the gyoji or shimpan disqualify someone for a henka that does not conform? With stigma concerning henka apparently now gone (i.e., it's here to stay so deal with it), I'd really like to know what the rule is. (Enjoying a beer...)

Touche my good man! :-) Just figured the winner of a no-holds-barred match would do it for certain. Anyhow, I'll not judge the man too harshly; it's not like he's taking someone else's money. I'm still wondering if the K-1 thing falls through, can he and Jesse still talk?

Not quite sure that would be fair to the sumo guy because none of the sumo techniques are designed to inflict bodily harm, so he'd hafta go outside his area of experience to have a chance to win. For sure he'd need more than three months of practice so he probably needed the money in a hurry. Even so, if he were kicking arse instead of getting his own kicked, he'd look much less the mooch, but that's just how it's turned out. If he doesn't get this turned around and has nowhere else to go, has he already burned all bridges back into sumo??

In the glossary there are a couple definitions/descriptions of kabai-te that both say that the winning rikishi tried to soften his aite's fall to avoid injury to his aite. I alluded to these in the SML's protracted discussion on the Asashoryu-Kotonowaka bout last basho to form a basis for my argument in favor of Asa but one of the more eminent pro-Koto group members maintained that kabai-te had nothing to do with trying to soften the losing rikishi's fall. Is there an "official" definition of kabai-te somewhere, and if so does it include the element of softening the losing rikishi's fall?? (Laughing...)

I would agree because when I first heard Akebono was going into K-1, I reacted with disgust/pity, etc; but the ensuing months have dimmed most of that and I find I've been able to separate out the good stuff and ignore the rest of it. I guess like when your widowed mom remarries and you don't really like the guy to begin with...you never warm up to him but she's still your mom and nothing's ever going to change that. So, I'm more than willing to allow him his peace, such as it is. For the folks who just can't forgive though, I do feel you can make a case, but I also have some questions. I'm guessing you're giving Sentoryu a free pass to Pride because he's got nothing to show for his years in sumo. But what about everyone in between, and how does the nature of the chosen second career affect the legacy? For example, how would it have been if Akebono had gone into pro boxing instead of K-1 - or pro baseball or football...or figure skating (ok ok just work with me here)? Or if Kaio or Wakanosato or Jumonji did any of these things? Is it all about K-1, or can only an ex-yokozuna drag sumo through this kind of muck? This isn't about disrespecting anyone's view, but it does appear to be a bit tricky to figure out where to draw the line, and as a sumo fan I'm very curious where it might be drawn.

Testing again...More Lon's Pics

Boardwalk again...

Another boardwalk test...

Another boardwalk test....