Osh for Ozeki in Kyushu?

[Odoriou]

i think this discussion has skipped the fact that kotooshu was at maegashira 5 last basho.

Not really "last basho", but I agree that you can hardly start an ozeki run from M5. (Hugging...)

Last ozeki promotion was in 2002, so may I ask... (Laughing...)

When will we be told if (Cheers...) will be promoted? When the banzuke is released, or a few days after the basho already?

[Avitohol]

a win tomorrow seals it. (Hugging...) (Laughing...)

[Asashosakari]

Last ozeki promotion was in 2002, so may I ask... (Laughing...)

When will we be told if (Hugging...) will be promoted? When the banzuke is released, or a few days after the basho already?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ozeki and Yokozuna promotions are announced after the banzuke meeting, i.e. the Wednesday after senshuraku.

[Doitsuyama]

yes my oppinion is to promote him because he will win the next one anyway and with 2 15-0 wins in a row he will be the next yokozuna

where can i bet on him to get yokozuna until the end of this year?

greetings

wolfgangho

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Be my guest. Even if he has two 15-0 in Aki and Kyushu, he can't be promoted to Yokozuna. At least two basho at Ozeki are mandatory.

[Odoriou]

I believe that Kotooshu will be promoted if he manages a simple KK in Kyushu basho. Better forget about a yokozuna promotion - you would only be disappointed, as that will neeever happen.

But if Osh should really become ozeki right now... would he be listed ahead of kadoban ozeki Kaio then?

Asashoryu    Y
Chiyotaikai  O1  Tochiazuma
Kotooshu     O2  Kaio
Kotomitsuki  S   Hakuho
Kyokutenho   K   Kotoshogiku

[Avitohol]

Better forget about a yokozuna promotion - you would only be disappointed, as that will neeever happen.

Asashoryu 

[Kashunowaka]

I believe that Kotooshu will be promoted if he manages a simple KK in Kyushu basho.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are thinking about the 33 wins over 3 basho "requirement"? But it isn't that simple. I am fairly certain that Kotooshu will be promoted only directly after a tournament with at least 10 wins. And 10-5 wouldn't be very convincing either.

[Erkhembulgan]

I guess that Kotooshu will get yusho with 14-1 record and be promoted to Ozeki. I think that NSK is interested in having a new Ozeki. And I have a feeling that he is the 69th yokozuna...

[ilovesumo]

I guess that Kotooshu will get yusho with 14-1 record and be promoted to Ozeki. I think that NSK is interested in having a new Ozeki. And I have a feeling that he is the 69th yokozuna...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because of Osh's popularity, the Kyokai will think about whole Ozumo's popularity rising. Ozeki? No way out (In a state of confusion...) .

[Sasanishiki]

I will go out on a limb and say that if he beats the Yokozuna today then he will definitely be Ozeki. Even at 13-2, if he were to lose on the last days, his efforts this basho and with a win over the Yokozuna shows that he has Ozeki quality sumo in him.

If he loses to Asa, then a 14-1 yusho is probably also enough, I think, especially if his loss to Asa is "close".

[Mark Buckton]

the stable doors have been closed to more foreigners, many of the main players in the sekitori ranks are aliens and there has been no Japanese Y for 100 years.

Some Japanese I know are miffed and are asking why Asashoryu isn't forced to take nationality.

And you think they will give (Osh) ozekihood that easily to another of the gaijin crowd? What happens when he bums out like the shoe-in Y Hakuho did?

I'm skeptical.

[Asojima]

the stable doors have been closed to more foreigners, many of the main players in the sekitori ranks are aliens and there has been no Japanese Y for 100 years.

Some Japanese I know are miffed and are asking why Asashoryu isn't forced to take nationality.

And you think they will give (Osh) ozekihood that easily to another of the gaijin crowd? What happens when he bums out like the shoe-in Y Hakuho did?

I'm skeptical.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is also the memory of Dejima, Miyabiyama, Musoyama, Tochiazuma and Chiyotaikai as rikishi who have had less than sparkling careers as ozekis. I suspect that the kyokai will be hesitant to promote anyone to ozeki until he has demonstrated a reasonably strong double digit staying power. There will still be 2 non-kadoban ozekis at the end of Aki. Their back is not to the wall yet.

[Mark Buckton]

What happens when he bums out like the shoe-in Y Hakuho did?

jumping the gun there a bit mate. i still think hakuho will be yokozuna. he has the most talent and ability. its a matter of being injury free and mentally right.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

sorry - didn't mean it 'career-wise' - just meant as regarding the obvious roll he was on a year and a half ago. That roll has definitely bummed and that would look dodgy - Osh as a new ozeki performing below par if promoted too soon.

More time to prove himself as a double digit man methinks - Asojima ditto.

[Chiyozakura]

[There is also the memory of Dejima, Miyabiyama, Musoyama, Tochiazuma and Chiyotaikai as rikishi who have had less than sparkling careers as ozekis.  I suspect that the kyokai will be hesitant to promote anyone to ozeki until he has demonstrated a reasonably strong double digit staying power.  There will still be 2 non-kadoban ozekis at the end of Aki.  Their back is not to the wall yet.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I really wonder who you would consider a good Ozeki? With the exception of Kaio Chiyotaikai has done as well as all Ozeki who have not been promoted to Yokozuna. None has more Yusho and none has had more 10plus basho than him. Looking at the numbers of former Ozeki Chiyotaikai has done quite well and with the exception of his injuries was very stable.

I als would not call Dejima, Musoyama or Tochiazuma weak Ozeki. Dejima's stint was short, but the first year was as good as most other Ozeki did. There is no way you can avoid having Ozeki who lose their rank quickly as long as you cannot see into the future. Maybe this is Kotooshu's last strong basho? How could we know? He could go the the Futabayama way or he could never win a single match again....

[Asojima]

I really wonder who you would consider a good Ozeki?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Chiyotaikai - 39 basho as an ozeki. 2 yusho (1 with 1 Y and 3 O kyujo and 1 with 1 Y and 2 O kyujo). Average of 8.2 wins per basho. Kadoban a record 8 times. I consider him a cut above the other 4, but not an exceptional ozeki. I will admit to having higher expectations of an ozeki than the average fan.

Edited September 23, 2005 by Asojima

[Kashunowaka]

I als would not call Dejima, Musoyama or Tochiazuma weak Ozeki. Dejima's stint was short, but the first year was as good as most other Ozeki did. There is no way you can avoid having Ozeki who lose their rank quickly as long as you cannot see into the future. Maybe this is Kotooshu's last strong basho? How could we know? He could go the the Futabayama way or he could never win a single match again....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps Osh will go Hokutoriki in the last days. He can easily lose one of the two remaining bouts. It's not like he beats Chiyotaikai every time they meet. And I don't give him much chance in a playoff.

[Otokonoyama]

'Osh has shown a lot growth in the past several basho. He looked calmer today in this *clincher* torikumi than he did just one basho ago against Wakanosato. He went from being "knocked-out" on his feet against the yokozuna two basho ago to beating him last basho, and giving him a good scare today. It was a wild match that could easily have gone Kotooshu's way given a bit more experience. Remember, this is his 18th basho since joining Ozumo. If he takes yusho, he'll have done it in exactly 3 years since starting. It took the previous fastest rikishi (Asashoryu & Takanohana) 24 basho, or 4 years. Akebono took 25 or 26, Musashimaru 30, and Wakanohana III 31.

Edited September 23, 2005 by Otokonoyama

[ilovesumo]

Nishinoshima: jumping the gun there a bit mate. i still think hakuho will be yokozuna. he has the most talent and ability. its a matter of being injury free and mentally right.

Right. He put on a few kilos, suffered an injury and has to find out how to handle it. He will...

Man, he is 20 years old- give him time to breathe. Some here think of him as an old man like Chiyotaikai. He has allot of time to go his own way and will be at least Ozeki.

Chiyozakura:

Edited September 23, 2005 by ilovesumo

[Lucius Flavonius]

Some Japanese I know are miffed and are asking why Asashoryu isn't forced to take nationality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because he is enamoured by the pseudo-patriotic sentiments. I for one would encourage Asashoryu to request for the Japanese citizenship. That's the right thing.

[Shimpu]

I will name my new rat "Oshu" if you get the Yusho!

;-) This will energize him for sure. :-P

[Hashira]

'Osh has shown a lot growth in the past several basho.  He looked calmer today in this *clincher* torikumi than he did just one basho ago against Wakanosato.  He went from being "knocked-out" on his feet against the yokozuna two basho ago to beating him last basho, and giving him a good scare today.  It was a wild match that could easily have gone Kotooshu's way given a bit more experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

today's bout would really go well to helping create a good rivalry between them. Osh has to win the next one, though

[Bishonohana]

Some Japanese I know are miffed and are asking why Asashoryu isn't forced to take nationality.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Because he is enamoured by the pseudo-patriotic sentiments. I for one would encourage Asashoryu to request for the Japanese citizenship. That's the right thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not sure if that would do anything for the proud Japanese people to come back to Ozumo. Even if Asashoryu took citizenship, in their heart of hearts, they will still know that Asashoryu is Mongolian. IMHO - I think it will take a Japanese Yokozuna before the sumo fans (non-die hard type) of Japan will come back to truly embrace Ozumo again. I have heard so many say "Ozumo wa tsumannai" (meaning: Sumo is not interesting or boring) since there is no Japanese Yokozuna... :'-( I guess we will wait and see. (Whistling...)

[ilovesumo]

Perhaps Osh will go Hokutoriki in the last days. He can easily lose one of the two remaining bouts. It's not like he beats Chiyotaikai every time they meet. And I don't give him much chance in a playoff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, I am :-S . Ruled by the wish to see Mikey in the car beside Osh I thought Asashoryu could really miss this Yusho. Kashunowaka, I am :'-( but you are so right...Without Tochiazuma's help, no way anymore ...

[AsaMoe]

There is also the memory of Dejima, Miyabiyama, Musoyama, Tochiazuma and Chiyotaikai as rikishi who have had less than sparkling careers as ozekis

I wonder why no one has objected on the Tochiazuma part ? Of course, i also accept, that he had some bad results as an Ozeki in recent years, especially when he was injured.

Nontheless, he is the second best rikishi this year, even better than Kotoosho (52 win against 46, including day 14). This is a sound performing, even for an Ozeki.

With todays loss Kotoosho will not become Ozeki, but has of course a very good position for Fukuoka. But i will take this for granted and i for myself would not bet on more than 1:1.

[Sanvean]

I totally agree with you, AsaMoe. What is more, even after facing the possibility of leaving the sumo career for a long time after the injury, Tochiazuma managed to come back and regain his previous position, which proves that he absolutely deserves the Ozeki rank.

I noticed that many people understimate him - don't really know why...

However, as this topic is on Osh's possibility of becoming an Ozeki: I believe he has more than a big chance to become one, but not yet.