Hatsu Basho 2019 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Atenzan]

2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Come on, I'm throwing you a bone here. 

The appropriate thing to throw to him would be a steak, I believe. 

But even though he may have been wrong, he's still the best. 

[Eikokurai]

15 minutes ago, Yatagarasu said:

Chiyotaikai is the standard clapback anytime anyone complains of a rikishi being one-dimensional.  Which begs the question, if that were enough, why haven't there more successful ozeki with only one gameplan?  Let's look at Abi and Onosho (injury notwithstanding), both of whom got off to roaring starts when they entered makuuchi.  Now Abi has slipped down the rankings since everyone has figured him out and Onosho still overcommits when charging forward and gets his face slapped into the dirt time and again... Even Ura was getting predictable in makuuchi after the initial surprise to his opponents wore off.  It's ok when you're only in the lower ranks - the odds of you facing the same opponent in successive basho are slim, especially if you yusho your way out of there.  But in makuuchi you're against the same guys every time, so a signature technique will indubitably have a shelf-life, unless you have some other kind of physical or tactical advantage, which IMHO, Takakeisho just doesn't have.  Chiyotaikai was taller and lighter.  Apples and oranges.  

I’d argue that Kotoshogiku is an example of a (fairly) successful Ozeki with one gameplan: the gaburi-yori. He kept the rank for 32 basho and won a yusho by rubbing his belly on other men.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Eikokurai

[Akinomaki]

11 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I know that, I'm asking for confirmation of the phrasing used in the article, because it appears to imply the other, less strict interpretation to me (in which case their trivia fact would be wrong).

The phrasing is "a rikishi with kyujo in between", kyujo hasanda rikishi - which might mean a later day win as well - but if you think of it as directly in between, it is the strict phrasing - as usual in Japanese, it is fuzzy enough to give room for interpretation - but it was TV Tokyo, so not a hotspot for sumo

Edited January 25, 2019 by Akinomaki

[Fede]

1 hour ago, Midoriyama said:

One has to think how Tamawashi reacts facing a chance of a lifetime to get his maiden yusho at 34. Surely some nerves would be in play. 

I hope he can manage as Tochi last year.

At my eyes Hakuho looks really tired. Probably, after surgery, he was not able to train properly for a long run. I think.

[Akinomaki]

Takakeisho just needs better skills to free himself from a grip again and resume thrusting, or get a maemitsu grip and drive the opponent out on the belt

[lackmaker]

3 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Since you are Kintamayama, I suppose I could describe you as the dog's bollocks now.

(I hope that Britishism is understood.)

Yes, it means he's got golden balls.

[Akinomaki]

Jonokuchi yusho winner Roga doesn't like to be called a Mongolian: "I'm Russian"

On 04/09/2018 at 17:35, Akinomaki said:

First foreign high school yokozuna Amarsanaa (19, 183cm, 135kg) has a Mongolian father and a Russian mother, lived in the Russian republic of Tuva till age 14 and his father (a 2m man) is 3 times champion of Tuvan sumo Khuresh - equal to yokozuna.

His father lived in UlaanBaatar when he moved to his place at age 14, that's why his shusshin is listed as UlaanBaatar, but he's born and raised in Tuva. http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20190125-OHT1T50086.html

Roga came to Japan at age 15 +2months, so he only lived 1 year in Mongolia http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201901250000278.html

But he apparently only has the Mongolian nationality

Edited January 25, 2019 by Akinomaki

[Kintamayama]

4 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Since you are Kintamayama, I suppose I could describe you as the dog's bollocks now.

(I hope that Britishism is understood.)

Yes, I understand British. I even know what bellend is..

[Kintamayama]

4 hours ago, Mikanoyama said:

In 3 years i never saw something like what's happened inside Kagayaki - Yoshikaze match. Last two days were not lucky days for gyojis!

In 50 years, I ain't seen anything like it,. in any amusement hall.

[Yamanashi]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Jonokuchi yusho winner Roga doesn't like to be called a Mongolian: "I'm Russian"

His father lived in UlaanBaatar when he moved to his place at age 14, that's why his shusshin is listed as UlaanBaatar, but he's born and raised in Tuva. http://www.hochi.co.jp/sports/sumo/20190125-OHT1T50086.html

Roga came to Japan at age 15 +2months, so he only lived 1 year in Mongolia http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201901250000278.html

But he apparently only has the Mongolian nationality

Imagine a duet with Ikioi crooning while Roga performs Tuvan throat singing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx8hrhBZJ98

 

[Kaiomitsuki]

Good news for Tamawashi and/or Takakeisho... 

In his career, when Hakuho lost three in a row in a Basho, he never won the Yusho ... Best results Jun yusho ;) 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Kaiomitsuki

[Thorbjarn]

This tournament took an amazing turn. I sure hope Mitakeumi withdraws now, he looked really hurt after marching out Ichinojo today. I know it's Sumo and my hopes are probably futile...but I hold out hope. 

[ryafuji]

8 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

He simply had some narrow escapes against opponents who should have lost just getting on the dohyo with him.. It's the quality of the bouts, not the record.

I got some pushback in September for saying Hakuho's performances "weren't really zensho-worthy" but that's what I was trying to say back then.

Edited January 25, 2019 by ryafuji

[bettega]

1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

In 50 years, I ain't seen anything like it,. in any amusement hall.

The only one I remember (in the last decade) was that weird matta call by  Hakuhou. Nobody listened him.

[Amamaniac]

4 hours ago, Morty said:

I'm calling it now - Tamawashi loses at least one of his next two, Hak and Takakeisho win both, we have a three way play-off on senshuraku, which Taka wi...., no, who am I kidding, Hak wins, to maintain the status quo.

Bold call, Morty.  Unfortunately, I don't share your optimism about there being a three-way play-off.  There were a few tournaments in the past (at least, in the last two years) where I've felt we might see a three-way playoff, and it always seems to get sorted out by sanshuraku.  Let's just say I've been bitten.

I am sad to say that Hakuho – as much as I admire him, is on a downward slope.  And frankly, I don't think he has what it will take to make a comeback.  

There is a chance that Tamawashi will lose one of his next two bouts, but I think he is looking strong and will win both; after all, he will be facing lower ranked opponents (admittedly ones that he hasn't dominated in the past - case in point, Aoiyama tomorrow).  I've liked Tamawashi as a Top Division wrestler for several years now, but have been disappointed by his inconsistency.  This tournament, he truly seems to be at the top of his game.

I'm a little miffed at the NSK, since word has come out that they will not promote Takakeisho to Ozeki if he ends up with only 11 wins.  He's at 10, so I want him to win his last two and make it more or less impossible to the NSK to block his Ozeki promotion.

In short, my call is a Tamawashi yusho, 12 wins for Takakeisho (junyusho), and some major soul searching for Hakuho.

[bettega]

Hakuhou looks like a normal Yokozuna now 

[Amamaniac]

6 hours ago, Akōgyokuseki said:

But the rikishi I'm most pleased for today is Ikioi...well done to him after suffering that awful injury last week. That's the thing I most admire about him, his ability to keep going...that and his lovely voice...

Agreed.  But weren't you a wee bit disappointed that Ikioi didn't get any kenshokin for his KK today?  He was robbed!

[Amamaniac]

1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

6 hours ago, Mikanoyama said:

In 3 years i never saw something like what's happened inside Kagayaki - Yoshikaze match. Last two days were not lucky days for gyojis!

In 50 years, I ain't seen anything like it,. in any amusement hall.

And here I thought you were 35 years old!

Frankly, I don't know what to make of this.  I know I shouldn't read too much into things, but it's my nature, so forgive me if I offend.  

But in the past few years, both Harumafuji and Hakuho have been in bouts where they have tried to protest a no-matta call by the gyoji, and they have been stone-facedly rejected by the shimpan.  Here, Kimura Konoksuke (an experienced and highly respected gyoji) sticking to his guns and essentially letting Kagayaki walk Yoshikaze out of the ring, because that is how cases such as this have always been handled.  Having watched the first tachi'ai more or less frame by frame, Yoshikaze waits with both fists down and Kagayaki does drop both hands to the ring before his charge (i.e., no false start & proper call by the gyoji).  

There was absolutely no reason for Onomatsu to give Yoshikaze a second chance.  And essentially, Onomatsu was saying that Konosuke messed up.  More importantly,  I for one think it sets a bad precedent.  And here is where I start contemplating the "possibility" of a slight sign of favouritism emerging.  Appeals by two Mongolian Yokozunas were rejected in the recent past (perhaps not by this particular shimpancho), but the appeal by a Japanese rank-and-filer is granted...  Just saying.  Something ain't right in Ryogoku.

[Jakusotsu]

36 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

There is a chance that Tamawashi will lose one of his next two bouts, but I think he is looking strong and will win both; after all, he will be facing lower ranked opponents (admittedly ones that he hasn't dominated in the past - case in point, Aoiyama tomorrow).

Tamawashi won the last three encounters against Aoiyama. My money is on him to win the yusho without a playoff.

[Eikokurai]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Bold call, Morty.  Unfortunately, I don't share your optimism about there being a three-way play-off.  There were a few tournaments in the past (at least, in the last two years) where I've felt we might see a three-way playoff, and it always seems to get sorted out by sanshuraku.  Let's just say I've been bitten.

I am sad to say that Hakuho – as much as I admire him, is on a downward slope.  And frankly, I don't think he has what it will take to make a comeback.  

There is a chance that Tamawashi will lose one of his next two bouts, but I think he is looking strong and will win both; after all, he will be facing lower ranked opponents (admittedly ones that he hasn't dominated in the past - case in point, Aoiyama tomorrow).  I've liked Tamawashi as a Top Division wrestler for several years now, but have been disappointed by his inconsistency.  This tournament, he truly seems to be at the top of his game.

I'm a little miffed at the NSK, since word has come out that they will not promote Takakeisho to Ozeki if he ends up with only 11 wins.  He's at 10, so I want him to win his last two and make it more or less impossible to the NSK to block his Ozeki promotion.

In short, my call is a Tamawashi yusho, 12 wins for Takakeisho (junyusho), and some major soul searching for Hakuho.

If that’s true about Takakeisho and the 11 wins, that’s the biggest pile of bullshit I’ve heard in a while. 33 wins in sanyaku with a yusho to boot? When has that ever not been good enough?

Edit: Baruto in 2009 was the last time someone got 33 wins across three sanyaku basho without Ozeki promotion, but he also didn’t win a yusho on the way. He was also only the third guy to have been passed over that way, and one of the three was Miyabiyama – a special case because it was an attempt at re-promotion.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Eikokurai

[Rocks]

4 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Tamawashi won the last three encounters against Aoiyama. My money is on him to win the yusho without a playoff.

I'd agree but the last 2 encounters Aoiyama was having terrible bashos  and he's going for KK here. The last real match between them is all the way back in July 2016 and Aoiyama won 6 straight prior to that.

[lackmaker]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

In 50 years, I ain't seen anything like it,. in any amusement hall.

The pinball wizard always gets a replay.

[Rocks]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

I'm a little miffed at the NSK, since word has come out that they will not promote Takakeisho to Ozeki if he ends up with only 11 wins.  He's at 10, so I want him to win his last two and make it more or less impossible to the NSK to block his Ozeki promotion.

WTH? He has 52 wins in his last 5 basho, with 2 matches to go, and a yusho. That's 6 wins more than the next guy, Mitakeumi, and 11 more than the guy in 3rd, Aoiyama. He's also the only guy to KK in all five of those basho. Talk about screwing a guy. And during that same 5 basho he has beat a Yokozuna twice. Is that the most? No, but that's as many times as Goeido and Tochinoshin has and one more than Takayasu.

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Rocks

[Akōgyokuseki]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

But weren't you a wee bit disappointed that Ikioi didn't get any kenshokin for his KK today?  He was robbed!

For sure. I also think Ikioi needs a new sponsor... maybe a injury and accident at work compensation firm  

 

[Rocks]

5 minutes ago, Akōgyokuseki said:

For sure. I also think Ikioi needs a new sponsor... maybe a injury and accident at work compensation firm  

 

Or the national health service. He is their biggest user after all.