Trivia bits

[Kamitsuumi]

Could this be the first time that (non-kyujo) sanyaku rikishi have the same record for each rank on day 8?

Y: 8-0
O: 6-2
S: 6-2
K: 3-5

[Jakusotsu]

First basho ever with four 10+ Sekiwake.

[Gurowake]

Inspired by what happened on my banzuke for RotoSumo, times that an Ozeki promotion ignored the fundamental banzuke promotion rule (you don't get promoted past someone with the same or better score), since 1900:

From S1w:

Aki 2019 - Takakeisho has the automatic 10-win return after demotion, but Mitakeumi was ranked ahead of him and had the same score but wasn't promoted.

October 1930: Noshirogawa is promoted with an 8-3 from S1w, but S1e Tenryu is not. This was when the banzuke was the same two basho in a row and then changed based on the results of both basho.  It was also a repromotion for Noshirogawa as well, though under different and perhaps ad-hoc rules.

March 1927: HItachiiwa promoted with a 9-2 from S1w, Onogawa at S1e was not.  Similar to above, this was when the banzuke was the same two basho in a row.

From S2:

Hatsu 2000- Takanonami had an automatic 10-win repromotion, while Musoyama had more wins while ranked ahead of him and wasn't promoted.

Haru 1919 - Tsushimanada had 6 wins and was promoted, while Tsunenohana also had 6 wins and was not.  This was the latter's sanyaku debut though, so he wasn't going to be promoted regardless.  The former also had 3 draws and one loss, while the latter had 3 losses and 1 absence, so in some way the former's record was better anyway.

So it really hasn't happened under any normal circumstances like the one I just had in RotoSumo, where it just so happened that the rikishi ranked ahead needed more wins for Ozeki promotion and they had the same number which was enough for the lower-ranked one but not the higher-ranked one.  The 1919 one is close, but Tsushimanada's record was actually better even if the number of wins was the same.  Since Tsunenohana would have never been promoted even if he had 7 or more wins, I'd say this kinda counts though.  The two "same banzuke" ones wouldn't have happened if the banzuke had been updated as it is now.  And the other two are automatic repromotions which are much more likely to break the rule than normal.

[Reonito]

1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

Inspired by what happened on my banzuke for RotoSumo, times that an Ozeki promotion ignored the fundamental banzuke promotion rule (you don't get promoted past someone with the same or better score), since 1900:

Slightly different, but Kaio got promoted with 11-4 from S1e while Tochiazuma did not from S1w with 12-3. 

[Asashosakari]

12 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Inspired by what happened on my banzuke for RotoSumo, times that an Ozeki promotion ignored the fundamental banzuke promotion rule (you don't get promoted past someone with the same or better score), since 1900:

Yeah, I was rooting especially for Daieisho this basho for this reason. Maybe next time...

[Asashosakari]

Some random musings...

In the 15-bout era since 1949.05, a yokozuna rank has been held 1023 times.

 128 full kyujo
----
 895 participations

 265 yusho        29.6%
  29 yusho-doten   3.2%
 144 jun-yusho    16.1%
----
 438 1st/2nd      48.9%

An ozeki rank has been held 1387 times.

  30 full kyujo
----
1357 participations

  98 yusho         7.2%
  28 yusho-doten   2.1%
 134 jun-yusho     9.9%
----
 260 1st/2nd      19.2%

Ozeki who became yokozuna:

 417 ranks held
   4 full kyujo
----
 413 participations

  65 yusho        15.7%
  20 yusho-doten   4.8%
  69 jun-yusho    16.7%
----
 154 1st/2nd      37.3%

Career ozeki:

 970 ranks held
  26 full kyujo
----
 944 participations

  33 yusho         3.4%
   8 yusho-doten   0.8%
  65 jun-yusho     6.9%
----
 106 1st/2nd      11.2%

[Bunbukuchagama]

5 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

In the 15-bout era since 1949.05, a yokozuna rank has been held 1023 times.

 128 full kyujo
----
 895 participations

 265 yusho        29.6%
  29 yusho-doten   3.2%
 144 jun-yusho    16.1%
----
 438 1st/2nd      48.9%

Is there a way to check the odds of the only Yokozuna on the banzuke to win it all?

My query game is still very weak. 

Edited June 8, 2023 by Bunbukuchagama

[Reonito]

41 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Is there a way to check the odds of the only Yokozuna on the banzuke to win it all?

My query game is still very weak. 

Here's the query, but I'm too lazy to count 

[Bunbukuchagama]

1 minute ago, Reonito said:

Here's the query, but I'm too lazy to count 

Thank you! Looks roughly like a 50 percent yusho rate or close to that. 

[Ripe]

15 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Here's the query, but I'm too lazy to count 

So if my count is correct, that makes 38 yusho from 75 cases or little over 50%... but in 16 of those 75 cases a lone yokozuna was kyuyo, either full basho or just portion of it. Meaning that out of 59 basho lone yokozuna competed in and completed, they won 38 of them or 64.4% which is what you'd expect.

[Bunbukuchagama]

1 minute ago, Ripe said:

So if my count is correct, that makes 38 yusho from 75 cases or little over 50%... but in 16 of those 75 cases a lone yokozuna was kyuyo, either full basho or just portion of it. Meaning that out of 59 basho lone yokozuna competed in and completed, they won 38 of them or 64.4% which is what you'd expect.

A Yokozuna has a luxury of withdrawing without consequences rather than finishing the basho with a bad record when things are not going well; this is why we don't see any complete MK on the list, only Y, JY, or an occasional 11-4, 10-5, or 9-6 record. If we take it into account, we should only eliminate 0-0-15 results when calculating the odds, I think. 

[Ripe]

16 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

A Yokozuna has a luxury of withdrawing without consequences rather than finishing the basho with a bad record when things are not going well; this is why we don't see any complete MK on the list, only Y, JY, or an occasional 11-4, 10-5, or 9-6 record. If we take it into account, we should only eliminate 0-0-15 results when calculating the odds, I think. 

Fair enough... there is 8 0-0-15 results there and I'm not sure how to count Hokutoumi's final two basho. He was full kyuyo in Hatsu when Asahifuji retired, then he entered Haru (most likely because he felt it's his duty since he was lone yokozuna) but he dropped out after two loses for 0-3-12 record and then he retired shortly before start of Natsu making his db record 0-0. That 0-0 shouldn't be counted either way (making it only 74 cases of lone yokozuna) but the question is do we include or dismiss his Haru record.

So it's either 38 out of 66 (if we count Hokutoumi's Haru basho) for 57.5% or 38 out of 65 (if we don't count his Haru appearance) for 58.4%

[Reonito]

10 minutes ago, Ripe said:

Fair enough... there is 8 0-0-15 results there and I'm not sure how to count Hokutoumi's final two basho. He was full kyuyo in Hatsu when Asahifuji retired, then he entered Haru (most likely because he felt it's his duty since he was lone yokozuna) but he dropped out after two loses for 0-3-12 record and then he retired shortly before start of Natsu making his db record 0-0. That 0-0 shouldn't be counted either way (making it only 74 cases of lone yokozuna) but the question is do we include or dismiss his Haru record.

So it's either 38 out of 66 (if we count Hokutoumi's Haru basho) for 57.5% or 38 out of 65 (if we don't count his Haru appearance) for 58.4%

Winning 58% of the basho entered and 64% of the basho completed is pretty pretty good.

[Bunbukuchagama]

21 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Winning 58% of the basho entered and 64% of the basho completed is pretty pretty good.

[Asashosakari]

Banzuke that saw unchanged ranks for both 8-7 and 7-8 records (coloured = both in the same division):

1959.01->1959.03

• 8-7: M1e
• 7-8: J8w, J10e, J10w, J11e

1960.05->1960.07

• 8-7: J10e, J11e, J12e, J12w
• 7-8: M11e, M11w, J2w

1964.05->1964.07

• 8-7: J9e
• 7-8: M1w, M2e

1964.09->1964.11

• 8-7: M15e
• 7-8: J10w

1968.05->1968.07

• 8-7: J1e, J1w
• 7-8: M3w, M5w

1980.01->1980.03

• 8-7: J1w, J2e
• 7-8: M3w

2022.05->2022.07

• 8-7: J1w
• 7-8: J9e, J10e

2022.11->2023.01

• 8-7: M3w, M4w
• 7-8: M9e, M10e, M14e, M14w, J8e, J14e

[Faustonowaka]

Terunofuji: first to be ranked 3 basho in a row at Y1eYO and first to win a Yusho at that rank

Edited June 23, 2023 by Faustonowaka

[Chiyotasuke]

What is the longest shikona?

The longest in rōmaji is Yatsushironishiki, with 17 letters.

The longest in kana is Kyūshūnishiki, which consists of 9 characters (きゅうしゅうにしき). There's no other with 9 or more in the DB, except Shōkumonryū (しょうくもんりゅう) whose reading is not confirmed. Hōshōryū and Sh ōnannoumi are the longest in makuuchi right now, with 8 kana characters.

And lastly, the longest ones in kanji have 5 kanji maximum to date. Those that don't have a kana in them (like 千代の富士) are: 出羽乃富士 Dewanofuji, 伊那乃富士 Inanofuji, 千代九十九 Chiyotsukumo, 土佐乃富士 Tosanofuji and 琴桐ヶ久保 Kotokirigakubo.

(And the shortest shikona in all the aspects above is U)

Edited June 29, 2023 by Chiyotasuke

[Kamitsuumi]

12 hours ago, Chiyotasuke said:

What is the longest shikona?

The longest in rōmaji is Yatsushironishiki, with 17 letters.

The longest in kana is Kyūshūnishiki, which consists of 9 characters (きゅうしゅうにしき). There's no other with 9 or more in the DB, except Shōkumonryū (しょうくもんりゅう) whose reading is not confirmed. Hōshōryū and Sh ōnannoumi are the longest in makuuchi right now, with 8 kana characters.

And lastly, the longest ones in kanji have 5 kanji maximum to date. Those that don't have a kana in them (like 千代の富士) are: 出羽乃富士 Dewanofuji, 伊那乃富士 Inanofuji, 千代九十九 Chiyotsukumo, 土佐乃富士 Tosanofuji and 琴桐ヶ久保 Kotokirigakubo.

(And the shortest shikona in all the aspects above is U)

琴桐ヶ久保's ヶ could be considered as kana.

I don't think the yō-on (ゃゅょ) are usually counted as length (that is, mora length). In this case the longest shikona should go to former Daiechizen'ō (だいえちぜんおう), with 8: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?shikona=大越前王

[Chiyotasuke]

34 minutes ago, Kamitsuumi said:

琴桐ヶ久保's ヶ could be considered as kana.

I don't think the yō-on (ゃゅょ) are usually counted as length (that is, mora length). In this case the longest shikona should go to former Daiechizen'ō (だいえちぜんおう), with 8: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?shikona=大越前王

Thank you. I definitely wasn't aware of these. Daiechizen'ō, what a shikona.

[Reonito]

I believe this is the first Day 3 since 1964 with no intra-san'yaku fights (and the first Day 2 as well).

[Chiyotasuke]

2023 Nagoya Banzuke Trivias

It's the first time since 2016.7 that there are no university rikishi (graduated or not) in sanyaku.

In makuuchi, there are a record 12 rikishi whose shikona contain "shō/shou". Aki 2000 was the last time when no makuuchi rikishi had this in their shikona.

[Reonito]

This is the first time Tamawashi has 3 yorikiri wins in a single basho, and he's done it on consecutive days (4, 5, 6).

[yorikiried by fate]

3 hours ago, Reonito said:

This is the first time Tamawashi has 3 yorikiri wins in a single basho, and he's done it on consecutive days (4, 5, 6).

Maybe that's kind of some Mongolian version of opposite-day-style zen meditation. I remember a basho or two when Hakuho behaved like it's forbidden to grab the opponent's mawashi...

[rokudenashi]

On 29/06/2023 at 04:31, Chiyotasuke said:

千代九十九 Chiyotsukumo

I assume he got this shikona based on his recorded weight at the time (99kg)

[RabidJohn]

18 hours ago, Reonito said:

This is the first time Tamawashi has 3 yorikiri wins in a single basho, and he's done it on consecutive days (4, 5, 6).

Make that 4. 

I knew it was unusual or I wouldn't have commented on it in the Results thread, but I didn't know it was a first.

He claimed to be annoyed with himself after the 2nd, but I wonder if the old dog is now thinking, "Well I never - this belt stuff actually works!"