Daigaiguma Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 Have to like Baruto in his match against Osh today. The taller, more experienced Osh had Baruto in his favorite position and still couldn't do anything with him. The look on Osh's face after he was unceremoniously dumped dohyo-side was priceless. I thought it was a "How the hell can I fight against that" kind of look. Considering Osh used to get those same looks, I think that bodes well for Baruto. I'd say today - and really this whole basho - suggests that reports of Baruto's demise are a bit premature.
yamaneko Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 I want to see a good match tomorrow vs. hakuho. No henka please. I want to see power on power. I hope baruto doesnt slip like he does sometimes neither. If baruto can stay low and not give up morozashi, it should be a good match. If baruto looses, i dont think it will be a sign of going dowhnill though. who do you think baruto will get on day 11?
Notsukutsu Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 I hope someone will put a movie of this match online soon :( The clip at the usual Baruto movies place is rubbish and hangs at the crucial moment, thanks to the ever-deteriorating quality of webcast. :(
Bix Poku Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Can I add my humble voice to Notsukutsu's request. Sumolive hung up and all I saw was Baruto climbing back to dohyo. First I thought that he had lost the match. Edited July 17, 2006 by Bix Poku
Sashohitowa Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Remarkable victory, indeed! I think that the most important moment was when Kotooshu tried to start an yori move - but Baruto resisted - like a rock! Then Kotooshu lost the initiative - and let Baruto "do his own sumo".. (In a state of confusion...) However I'd like to add my humble oppinion that, if Kotooshu had no pain in the knee, he would have succeeded in carrying out Baruto from that position. He has much more power - and everybody who are giving him as an example of mediocrity, should remember that. Edited July 17, 2006 by Sashohikufuhen
Karu Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 However I'd like to add my humble oppinion that, if Kotooshu had no pain in the knee, he would have succeeded in carrying out Baruto from that position. Maybe so, but there is no way we can find it out now... Then again an injury is excuse you can always come up with when somebody loses, isn't it? Of course i don't think Osh is a mediocre rikishi, otherwise he would have never made it to the ozeki rank... I just couln't resist to get a little pleasure of irritating some of his blinded fans (In a state of confusion...)
Asashosakari Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 I hope someone will put a movie of this match online soon :( The clip at the usual Baruto movies place is rubbish and hangs at the crucial moment, thanks to the ever-deteriorating quality of webcast. :( Can I add my humble voice to Notsukutsu's request. Sumolive hung up and all I saw was Baruto climbing back to dohyo. First I thought that he had lost the match. My stream was fine, so here you go. (Not linked at banzuke.com yet because I have no time to do the whole slate of movies right now.)
SalParadise Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 Kotooshuu losing to Baruto was significant for a different reason for Oshu watchers (or at least it should be). This is the first match of the Basho in which Oshu got his favoured grip and still lost the bout. His other losses have been due to him being unable to get a grip at all, and many of his wins have involved him floundering around the dohyo with a close win by hataki-komi. Ever since he's gotten the knee injury, it seems he's regressed to his mid-maegashira days, where he'd resort to slap downs if he couldn't get his grip or felt he may be overmatched by his opponent. I could understand it the basho after he got injured, due to the drop of power and the fear that getting the mawashi grip would force him to use the leg more and possibly make the injury worse, but now it's just making him look foolish. He has incredible strength and leverage with his favoured grip, and as the knee continues to heal, I hope he'll remember how to use it. Baruto was impressive today, and better than Kotooshuu. That's impressive. I think it says much more about Baruto's strength than any deficiency of Kotooshuu. His loss to Kisenosato on the other hand...
_the_mind_ Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 I'm telling you, he's washed up. He hasn't even made it to sanyaku, and he's already losing bouts against other Maegashira. Only a washed up rikishi with no future would lose to Futeno. Asashoryuu allegedly contemplated ending it all after his loss to the blogging rikishi. clearly baruto is washed up after slinging around an ozeki who has probably never been lifted off his feet ever on the dohyo before. baruto should just retire now and save us all the trouble. how embarressing it is to beat an ozeki in a highly powerful way when you are a lowley washed up maegashira
Bix Poku Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 My stream was fine, so here you go. (Not linked at banzuke.com yet because I have no time to do the whole slate of movies right now.) You made our day brighter... (I am not worthy...)
SalParadise Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 clearly baruto is washed up after slinging around an ozeki who has probably never been lifted off his feet ever on the dohyo before. baruto should just retire now and save us all the trouble. how embarressing it is to beat an ozeki in a highly powerful way when you are a lowley washed up maegashira I would have hoped that it was pretty clear I was joking. Apparently I need to make this sort of thing more obvious. Like stating that I was joking. Which I did in my next post.
Notsukutsu Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Thanks for the video! Baruto said he couldn't get a good grip at first -- Kotooshu's mawashi was a bit loose, so he ended up with only the uppermost layer at hand (as you can also see from the clip). The fall at the end knocked the wind out of him pretty badly, and that at first he wasn't sure if he had won at all, until he saw the yokozuna giving him a wink. (I am not worthy...) Edited July 17, 2006 by Notsukutsu
Shibouyama Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 However I'd like to add my humble oppinion that, if Kotooshu had no pain in the knee, he would have succeeded in carrying out Baruto from that position. He has much more power - and everybody who are giving him as an example of mediocrity, should remember that. I don't think anybody is talking about Kotooshu being mediocre in this thread. Rather, Baruto being mediocre is the subject. And why do you think Kotooshu has much more power than Baruto? I don't think that is the case at all.
Doitsuyama Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Boy wonders usually end up mediocre. If you watch football, check out the stories of Michael Owen and Wayne Rooney.I invite you to watch sumo instead. Strong yokozuna and ozeki usually are strong in young age already - the occasional Chiyonofuji aside. Check out the stories of Asashoryu and Hakuho. Or Kotooshu...Mod edit: deleted reference to OT post Edited July 18, 2006 by Manekineko
Bix Poku Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 Heh, hype or not the hype. Thats not a question. Only time'll tell us what'll happen with Barutos career. Every road has its ups and downs, but you have to go through all of it if you want achieve something. Maybe there is some "new boy" overreacting in some commentaires, but you just have to agree - this reaction cant grow from nothing. Baruto may spend many bashos in M1-M10, but still this is the hunt for the top of mountaign.
Asashosakari Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Asashoryu and Hakuho didn't enter Makuchi on top of a wave like Baruto the wonderkind. That's just nonsense. Hakuho came in with nearly as much hype, the only difference being that he didn't bring in fans from a whole new country because many Mongolian fans had already been following sumo. As for Asashoryu, certain people (cough, Kintamayama, cough) called him "the next Yokozuna" when he was still in mid-Makushita, so while the hype wasn't as widespread, there were certainly high expectations for him, as well. Mod edit: deleted reference to OT post Edited July 18, 2006 by Manekineko
Zeokage Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 Anybody living in Japan could have watched him in Juryo, as well, on TV. Which is like 3 1/2 basho, I think. Did I miss one? Only two basho in Juryo, right? Either way...a short time.Actually, unless you made sure to watch the Juryo replays, if you don't have sattelite you can only see Makuuchi. Actually, the NHK broadcast starts at about 3:10 or 3:15 every basho day. Missing maybe the first 10/15 minutes. How are you going to tell me I'm wrong, when I'm obviously living here watching the Juryo on my TV? It boggles the mind. Maybe the broadcast is different in different parts of the country, although that seems unlikely. They might have changed it since I was there. When I was in Kyushu (Sep 04 - Aug 05) the only sumo that I could see on NHK was from 4-6 with the highlights on at 12:40am most days.
SalParadise Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 Let's not forget that Kotooshuu made it to Sekiwake faster than any other wrestler ever. Let's not also forget that, if I'm not mistaken, his first (and only) make-koshi was at Shin-Komosubi. I believe if he were to win this tournament or the next one, he'd be the fastest Yusho winner (in basho) ever in Sumo. He hit Shin-Ozeki, was the toast of Japan for a few months, got his first 10-5 record, and then got injured. The hype was most assuredly deserved up until that point. He's still relatively young, he's still posting his kachi-koshi, and he's getting over an injury. So far, Baruto is looking like Kotooshuu in the meteoric rise up the banzuke. Possibly even better. We'll see how he does at Shin-Komosubi next basho assuming he keeps up his sumo and that we have a couple rikishi drop out of their newly gained shin-komosubi slots. If he can keep it up...
Asashosakari Posted July 17, 2006 Posted July 17, 2006 Let's not forget that Kotooshuu made it to Sekiwake faster than any other wrestler ever. Let's not also forget that, if I'm not mistaken, his first (and only) make-koshi was at Shin-Komosubi. I believe if he were to win this tournament or the next one, he'd be the fastest Yusho winner (in basho) ever in Sumo. I suspect winning this one is out of reach already, but if he wins in September he'd indeed be tying a very prominent record. It's his 24th tournament, and Taiho, Takanohana and Asashoryu all won their first yusho in their 24th basho.
Tetsuzukiyama Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 (edited) Mod edit: deleted reference to OT post As the Roho thing showed yesterday, the prominence and success of the foreign stars is completely re-writing the record and etiquette books and there's not much of a comparison to make between the wrestlers of today and those of even 10 years ago, let alone the careers of the past 50 year's Dai-Yokozunas. I'm just glad that our first glance at Baruto vs the top 15 is making this one hell of a fun basho, much like Kotooshu and then Ama when they hit the meatgrinder slots for the first time. I'm willing to give him another few basho to see if he's more than just Scary Ozeki material like Kotooshu or Konishiki. The biggest thing I've noticed this basho is how good everyone is making Asashoryu look. The Baru-Asa match will probably be a big letdown, but boy-oh-boy I can't wait. Edited July 18, 2006 by Manekineko
Asashosakari Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 The biggest thing I've noticed this basho is how good everyone is making Asashoryu look. The Baru-Asa match will probably be a big letdown, but boy-oh-boy I can't wait. I don't think we're going to get one this time. Asashoryu gets Miyabiyama on Day 10, then has the 5 Ozekis to play with for the rest of the week.
Kotoku Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Wow... just got online. Baruto wahsed up? A baby? Puleeze... -L- What I deeply disliked about the Oshu match was the ozeki did not let go, and seemed to purposely land on the big lug. That was dirty. Baruto is gonna be great, he's so raw, and yet wins with brute power. I thought he was gonna lose two matches, I was wrong. But I have no doubt he'll get a decent kachikoshi, and might even be sanyakku next basho... max! Tq
Sivodsi Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 Wow, can't believe that there is a thread with this title. This is Baruto's second basho and you're writing him off already??? It is, of course, far too early to say. From the years I've spent watching sumo it seems there is a fairly common pattern of a newly promoted makuuchi wrestler getting double digit wins on his first basho in the top rank, then failing to do so well in the next basho before either moving on or settling. As it happens, Baruto has the healthy record of 6-3 so far, and while he doesn't do so well against the better wrestlers, I am pretty sure his time will come. Afterall, you could see from the way he outmuscled Kotooshu that with more experience he will be a real handful for even the best rikishi. I am sure that even Kotooshu will get his act together for the final promotion if/when he gets his body back into condition again. The way he is wrestling now you can see that he is not 100% physically okay, once his body heals up he will be challenging for the yusho again.
SalParadise Posted July 18, 2006 Posted July 18, 2006 I suspect winning this one is out of reach already, but if he wins in September he'd indeed be tying a very prominent record. It's his 24th tournament, and Taiho, Takanohana and Asashoryu all won their first yusho in their 24th basho. Dear goodness, how time flies. I remember when he was going 12-3 and 13-2 last year and he had a shot at the yusho in his 18th basho or something. Lost to asashoryuu if I recall, in a playoff, but I remember thinking "It's okay -- he still has time." Between the injury and the Tochiazuma hubbub, I guess time just flew by and he's going to hit the 24th basho mark in September. Yikes. Still, at any rate, as stated he is nowhere near washed up. He hasn't won a yusho as he was expected to, but he was injured, and even WITH that injury, a miracle in this basho (one hell of a miracle) could have him beat the record, or a healthy Oshu in September could have him tie it. Point is, he's nothing to shrug at, and he's still FAR too early in his career to write off. Even Asashoryuu hadn't won a basho by the same point in his career as Oshu after all... (or is the Yokozuna mediocre or underperforming as well...?)
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