Ryu gets chewed out

[madorosumaru]

Yokozuna Asashoryu was called into the Kokukikan offices and severely reprimanded by Kitanoumi Rijicho today. His offense--conducting a signature drive to resusitate the moribund "Mongolia Jungyo." The jungyo department of the Kyokai had decided in March to forgo the trip at least for this year due to the lack of proper local facilities and time to find a suitable promoter.

Apparently, Ryu didn't want to give up that easily. While he was out of the basho with an injury, he sent representatives (two wakamonogashira) to the dressing rooms to gather signatures of rikishi favoring the jungyo. He was able to gain the support of not only Mongolian rikishi but also many of his Japanese colleagues.

When Kitanoumi Rijicho found out about this campaign during the basho, he was furious. This behavior is tantamount to "insubordiantion" of a decision reached by the Kyokai. Ryu was being "irresponsible" and "indiscreet."

After the meeting with the repentent yokozuna, the Rijicho said, "I gave him a 'severe warning.' He shouldn't have done such a thing during the basho when all focus should be on sumo. He realizes the error of his ways. I can understand why he would want to do this, but as the head of the Rikishi-Kai, he should know the proper means of handling such matters." Rijicho mentioned the two wakamonogashira involved would also be disciplined in some way.

As for the remorseful Ryu: "I apologize for doing this during the basho. This year is the 800th anniversay of [the founding of Genghis Khan's empire] so I really wanted [the jungyo to take place.] I got over-anxious and stepped out of bounds."

Edited May 24, 2006 by madorosumaru

[ilovesumo]

I understand Kitanoumi here, sure, no supporters and stuff- no jungyou, but "insubordiantion" (W00t, w00t, w00t...)

sorry, but... sounds a little strange used by the big boss of a sport association (Nodding yes...)

[Cammy]

Dang that is crazy, I guess he better be on his best behavior.

[Shibouyama]

I understand Kitanoumi here, sure, no supporters and stuff- no jungyou, but "insubordiantion" (W00t, w00t, w00t...)

sorry, but... sounds a little strange used by the big boss of a sport association (Nodding yes...)

Sumo is not only a sport. It is a martial art. A traditional one, with a long history. As such, the discipline and obedience required within the structures, heya or kyoukai, are more militaristic than other sports.

[Yubiquitoyama]

Yokozuna Asashoryu was called into the Kokukikan offices and severely reprimanded by Kitanoumi Rijicho today. His offense--conducting a signature drive to resusitate the moribund "Mongolia Jungyo." The jungyo department of the Kyokai had decided in March to forgo the trip at least for this year due to the lack of proper local facilities and time to find a suitable promoter.

Apparently, Ryu didn't want to give up that easily. While he was out of the basho with an injury, he sent representatives (two wakamonogashira) to the dressing rooms to gather signatures of rikishi favoring the jungyo. He was able to gain the support of not only Mongolian rikishi but also many of his Japanese colleagues.

When Kitanoumi Rijicho found out about this campaign during the basho, he was furious. This behavior is tantamount to "insubordiantion" of a decision reached by the Kyokai. Ryu was being "irresponsible" and "indiscreet."

While I suppose a young rikishi such as Asashoryu might not know instinctively what he can do in a situation or not, I find it quite interesting that his two culprits are wakaimonogashira and therefore experienced former rikishi with several years working within the Kyokai (I suppose Iyozakura in Takasago-beya was one, but who was the other? There is no other in Takasago-ichimon). Although I suppose Asashoryu has quite a bit of power as Yokozuna, it still seems it was not entirely as obvious to anyone else (as it was to Kitanoumi) how wrong this act was... (W00t, w00t, w00t...) (Nodding yes...)

Edited May 24, 2006 by Yubiquitoyama

[ilovesumo]

I understand Kitanoumi here, sure, no supporters and stuff- no jungyou, but "insubordiantion" (W00t, w00t, w00t...)

sorry, but... sounds a little strange used by the big boss of a sport association (Applauding...)

Sumo is not only a sport. It is a martial art. A traditional one, with a long history. As such, the discipline and obedience required within the structures, heya or kyoukai, are more militaristic than other sports.

Yes, I know it is. But such respect-things are not so easy to understand. These different forms of respect...

I would like to learn more about the "structure of powers". Who has ,for what reason, how much to say?

How important is age here, how important the number of Yusho, number of supporters, etcetc. What makes Kitanoumi so powerful? Which role plays Kanroku?

For example: Taiho-Kitanoumi-> who earns more respect at the moment? Kitanoumi as boss I guess, but Taiho is older and had the most Yusho. What counts the most?

I am sorry for my stupid questions, but I want to undersand. (Nodding yes...)

[Shibouyama]

I understand Kitanoumi here, sure, no supporters and stuff- no jungyou, but "insubordiantion" (Whatever above, it is funny...)

sorry, but... sounds a little strange used by the big boss of a sport association (Whistling...)

Sumo is not only a sport. It is a martial art. A traditional one, with a long history. As such, the discipline and obedience required within the structures, heya or kyoukai, are more militaristic than other sports.

Yes, I know it is. But such respect-things are not so easy to understand. These different forms of respect...

I would like to learn more about the "structure of powers". Who has ,for what reason, how much to say?

How important is age here, how important the number of Yusho, number of supporters, etcetc. What makes Kitanoumi so powerful? Which role plays Kanroku?

For example: Taiho-Kitanoumi-> who earns more respect at the moment? Kitanoumi as boss I guess, but Taiho is older and had the most Yusho. What counts the most?

I am sorry for my stupid questions, but I want to undersand. (Nodding yes...)

I don't think your questions are stupid at all. They are very interesting. They are things I'd like to know, as well.

I was just saying that etiquette is stricter in sumo, as I'm sure you know, due to it's history as a martial art/sport. No disrespect intended. It's just not possible to compare sumo to other sports in that way, even other fighting sports.

[Mark Buckton]

I understand Kitanoumi here, sure, no supporters and stuff- no jungyou, but "insubordiantion" (Whatever above, it is funny...)

sorry, but... sounds a little strange used by the big boss of a sport association (Whistling...)

Sumo is not only a sport. It is a martial art. A traditional one, with a long history. As such, the discipline and obedience required within the structures, heya or kyoukai, are more militaristic than other sports.

Yes, I know it is. But such respect-things are not so easy to understand. These different forms of respect...

I would like to learn more about the "structure of powers". Who has ,for what reason, how much to say?

How important is age here, how important the number of Yusho, number of supporters, etcetc. What makes Kitanoumi so powerful? Which role plays Kanroku?

For example: Taiho-Kitanoumi-> who earns more respect at the moment? Kitanoumi as boss I guess, but Taiho is older and had the most Yusho. What counts the most?

I am sorry for my stupid questions, but I want to undersand. (Nodding yes...)

I think experience will be he best teacher - you'll be here in August so if you manage to get into the amateur clubs and to stay at them / at a heya you'll see it first hand. That will count for so much more than a written response.

For me though - respect for Kitanoumi and Taiho comes in two forms - intertwined and completely separate. Such is Japan.

[Shibouyama]

I would like to learn more about the "structure of powers". Who has ,for what reason, how much to say?

How important is age here, how important the number of Yusho, number of supporters, etcetc. What makes Kitanoumi so powerful? Which role plays Kanroku?

For example: Taiho-Kitanoumi-> who earns more respect at the moment? Kitanoumi as boss I guess, but Taiho is older and had the most Yusho. What counts the most?

Maybe some of our more knowledgeable members can educate us.

side note - I have been in Japan too long. My English ability is atrophying. I wrote 'knowledgeable' and it was like I couldn't recognize the word. I looked it up on dictionary.com and it still looked funny. Woe is me!

(Whatever above, it is funny...)

[Yubiquitoyama]

Japan and sumotradition notwithstanding, Kitanoumi is boss, and the sumo federation pretty much has complete power over the sport to boot. Of course Asashoryu has to bend his back.

Even in sports far from Japan and without any sort of cultural/traditional stamp, the boss of the head federation is a pretty powerful guy (see football, volleyball, athletics etc etc) even when the organization in question does not permeate the individual clubs and league structures as it does with sumo. What I mean is that in this kind of case, one does not have to make it a cultural or traditional thing at all, but simply look at how similar structures in other sports tend to look.

[Hananotaka]

For example: Taiho-Kitanoumi-> who earns more respect at the moment? Kitanoumi as boss I guess, but Taiho is older and had the most Yusho. What counts the most?

What do you mean by respect?

Taiho is retired, with no real decision-making power in the Kyokai. His advice may be sought, and even given weight, but that's about the extent of his influence.

Kitanoumi is currently the head of the Kyokai. There can be no more powerful position. While he has to build consensus, in terms of status and respect he is at the top.

Now, if Kitanoumi and Taiho were in a room together, Kitanoumi would probably be deferential in manner to Taiho, using more polite/honorific speech, probably giving him the best seat in the room, and so on. If they were at a restaurant, Taiho would probably order first. This is etiquette. Taiho is the elder, in life and in sumo. But if Taiho said, "Kitanoumi, do the Mongolian jungyo!", Kitanoumi would say, "Thank you for your concern and advice. We'll try our best to see what we can do." And then do whatever the heck had been decided without Taiho. There's the public face, and then there's the reality.

If Taiho told some wakaimonogashira to do something, they'd probably do it. Heck, if he told some junior toshiyori to do something they'd probably do it. But if Kitanoumi expressly told them not to, or countermanded the order, they'd listen to him, not Taiho.

Actually, what Asashoryu did was the right idea. "Wa" (harmony) is very important. If a decision is come to, it's not easily overturned. So, if you need to initiate change, you need do nemawashi: to lay the groundwork. Getting signatures, building up consensus and support, and then going back to the administrators. He just picked the wrong time and place, that's all.

[Kintamayama]

Asa leaving the building: