What is needed for an Ozeki to be promoted to Yokozuna?

[Jejima]

After discussion on another thread concerning Tochiazuma's Yokozuna promotion chances, I wondered exactly upon what criteria the sumo forum members would like Ozekis to be promoted to Yokozuna, and came up with the above questions.

I believe that some people think that three basho should be taken into consideration, but I understand that in reality only the last basho 'properly' count, and so I have limited it to that.

I know that some of the options are a bit 'iffy' - eg 26 wins could mean two 13-2 basho, or 14-1 and a 12-3, or a 15-0 and an 11-4, each of which option is different in itself, but I hope that despite this, you will be able to find an option that you like.

For example if you think that the bare minimum is two 12-3 bashos, then you can select 24 wins, despite the fact that that could also mean 15-0 and 9-6.

[Asojima]

Two basho should not a yokozuna make. Promotion should be based on a consistent pattern of high performance over an extended series of basho. Two consecutive yusho or yusho equivalents would be hard to ignore, but they would probably come from a rikishi who has shown a reasonably consistent high win pattern. Two yusho preceded by a string of 8-7, 7-8 bashos should not qualify.

[Jejima]

Not quite as you state, but pretty close, Asahifuji seems to have a mediocre string of results before his two 14-1 Yusho that saw him promoted to Yokozuna.

Kotozakura could also fit into that slot....

Maybe Tochinishiki too?

[Asojima]

Not quite as you state, but pretty close, Asahifuji seems to have a mediocre string of results before his two 14-1 Yusho that saw him promoted to Yokozuna.

Kotozakura could also fit into that slot....

Maybe Tochinishiki too?

Asahifuji went 3 1/2 years without an MK including a string of 13 consecutive 10+ bashho.

Tochinishiki had 4 yusho in 9 basho with no MK in his string.

Koto Jack had three obvious kyujo basho in the previous 3 1/2 years, but no other MK.

All had shown the consistency I was referring to.

[Jejima]

I understand you better now (Dribbling...)

How would you view Tochiazuma's consistency in this regards? Would his being prone to injury count against him?

[Odoriou]

In short: two Yusho in three Basho. Something like 13-2Y => 10-5 => 14-1Y (after already having won two more Yusho before) would be okay for me. With such results it is proven that this Ozeki is able to regularly fight for Yusho, which is exactly what I expect of a Yokozuna.

[ikishima]

I went with 26 wins, two yusho equilvalents and same standards for Japanese and foreigners.

But if we keep the formula very complicated and have a constantly moving target, sumo will remain very interesting and we will alway have someting to go to the forum and discuss. I think standards should only be seen as rules of thumbs and that mysterious other factors need to be considered.

As long as "Behavior fitting of a Yokozuna" and "Yokozuna style sumo" standards exist, any other discussions of how many wins will it take will only be addressing part of criteria.

[Asojima]

I understand you better now (Carried away on a stretcher...)

How would you view Tochiazuma's consistency in this regards? Would his being prone to injury count against him?

My personal impression of the Zoomer is that he is too injury-prone. He has legitimate injuries which, by themselves, would keep him from achieving the consistency required for promotion. He also seems to lack the drive to overcome injury or adversity. To me, this is his greater shortcoming. He is content with where he is in life. (Scratching chin...)

[Asashosakari]

He also seems to lack the drive to overcome injury or adversity.

I'm sorry, but...huh? If there's one guy in Ozumo who has been pushing himself constantly to overcome his near-debilitating injuries, it's Tochiazuma. You're confusing lack of drive with lack of complete success, methinks. And even if he's never going to physically be the same guy he was back in the early 00's, he's clearly recovered to being a top Ozeki now, so I'm not sure what he could possibly do to prove his "drive" to you.

Edited May 1, 2006 by Asashosakari

[Kishinoyama]

26 / two yusho / the same / Nothing else to say.

[Kaiomitsuki]

I think that when you win 4 Yushos in your career as an Ozeki you should be automatically promoted to the Yokozuna rank

[Jakusotsu]

I think that when you win 4 Yushos in your career as an Ozeki you should be automatically promoted to the Yokozuna rank

I like this idea. Kaio would have been Yokozuna for almost three years now, and Chiyotaikai would be fighting for his tsuna as we speak (just like Tochiazuma any time soon). All three of them have already proven their prowess far better than some of the actual yokozuna.

Not that we will likely see the "rules" changed some time soon, but one can still dream...

[Zuikakuyama]

I think that when you win 4 Yushos in your career as an Ozeki you should be automatically promoted to the Yokozuna rank

I like this idea too. 4 sounds like a right number too, but maybe we need to qualify it with ozeki yushos only.

[Guest Jubin]

I like this idea too. 4 sounds like a right number too, but maybe we need to qualify it with ozeki yushos only.

This will be fear anough 3 wins as ozeki

[Jakusotsu]

I like this idea too. 4 sounds like a right number too, but maybe we need to qualify it with ozeki yushos only.

Alright, 1

[Kaiomitsuki]

I think that when you win 4 Yushos in your career as an Ozeki you should be automatically promoted to the Yokozuna rank

I like this idea. Kaio would have been Yokozuna for almost three years now, and Chiyotaikai would be fighting for his tsuna as we speak (just like Tochiazuma any time soon). All three of them have already proven their prowess far better than some of the actual yokozuna.

Not that we will likely see the "rules" changed some time soon, but one can still dream...

Kaio wins his first Yusho as a Komusubi and the next 4 as an Ozeki... his fourth Yusho as an Ozeki was in september 2004... just 20 months ago not 3 years (Applauding...)

Chiyotaikai wins 2 bashos as an Ozeki (the first was as a Sekiwake)

but Tochiazuma already wins 3 bashos as an Ozeki !

[rhino]

I think that when you win 4 Yushos in your career as an Ozeki you should be automatically promoted to the Yokozuna rank

I think this rule would be a good idea (although I would say 3 yusho as ozeki is good enough).

Interestingly, Kaiou is the only rikishi (since 1945) to have won 4 yusho as ozeki without being promoted to yokozuna.

Only 3 rikishi in this period have even managed 3 yusho as ozeki without winning their tsuna- that's Tochiazuma and Konishiki as well as Kaiou.

I think Kaiou was very unlucky not to be promoted at the end of 2004. Before the Futagahuro 'incident', it seems to me that 13-2Y followed by 12-3J would most likely have won him the tsuna, particularly with 5 yusho to his name.

Kashiwado was promoted with 11-4 then 12-3D (!)

Edited May 15, 2006 by rhino

[ikishima]

We all love KaioU. A lot of people are itching for a second Yokozuna but, I don