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New Yokozuna Tochiazuma!

Peterao

By Peterao
in Honbasho Talk

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Peterao Sekiwake

Peterao

Posted
Posted (edited)

After that match, I'm guessing that the Kyokai will try and find a way to promote Tochiazuma with that 12-3 record...

Edited by Peterao
Hashira Maegashira

Hashira

Posted
Posted

seems to me to be a kind of trend lately that people are using deliberately misleading headlines. you needn't be so desperate to have people read your post

yamaneko Ozeki

yamaneko

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Posted

I think tochiazuma messed up with his early losses.

Next basho i dont see how he can get 12 or 13 wins. Asa seems to have some of his fire back. Hakuho will be ozeki, and on a mission after loosing this yusho, Kotooshu will be back from injury and wont have much pressure, so i forsee a 12 win basho for him.

This might have been his one and only chance at yokozuna, as sumo is getting a lot more competitive at the top lately. And lets not forget up and comers like Baruto.

Sanvean Jonidan

Sanvean

Posted
Posted (edited)

Tochiazuma has shown that he can beat both Hakuho and Asashoryuu even when they are not injured and in good form. Thus I think the competition on the top is not his biggest problem. It is to avoid loosing to seemingly weaker opponents in the beginning and in the middle af a basho.

Edited by Sanvean
Chiyozakura Maegashira

Chiyozakura

Posted
Posted
But they really, really want a Japanese yokozuna...

What makes you believe this? Just becomes some guys with obviously limied knowledge of Sumo repeat it time after time after time....?

If they really wanted a Japanese Yokozuna they could just promote him. Kashiwado was promoted after 10-5, 11-4, 12-3 with no Yusho in those basho. So it is not like Tochiazuma did worse than past Yokozuna. If they really wanted a Japanese Yokozuna they could have promoted Kaio at the end of 2004. He followed a 13-2 Yusho with 12-3 Jun-Yusho. he was not promoted so obviously they only want to promote a Japanese Yokozuna if they really believe he deserves it. I would not have a problem if they promoted Tochiazuma to Yokozuna after this basho, but I believe they will not promote him because he did not meet the criteria of Jun-Yusho, and 25 in two basho wins are weaker than most recent Yokozuna promotions.

Asashosakari Dai-yokozuna

Asashosakari

Posted
Posted
I would not have a problem if they promoted Tochiazuma to Yokozuna after this basho, but I believe they will not promote him because he did not meet the criteria of Jun-Yusho, and 25 in two basho wins are weaker than most recent Yokozuna promotions.

Nitpick: It's 26 wins.

Jakusotsu Dai-yokozuna

Jakusotsu

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Posted

What I don't quite understand is all that talk about Tochiazuma "carrying over" to Natsu. He had a 12-3 with no jun-yusho this time, exactly like Konishiki in his "middle" basho. Why should Tochiazuma be treated more lenient this time? (and please don't open that can of worms again and give the "obvious" answer)

In my opinion he should be back at square one now.

Flying_Monkey Makushita

Flying_Monkey

Posted
Posted

Hmm - seeing it that way, it's not going to happen... he is still going to be in with a chance next time, but it is only going to get harder with Hakuho improving all the time, Asa hopefully back to his best, Kotooshu fit (?), and some good rikishi coming in at the bottom of makuuchi adding to the pressure on those higher up...

So, I guess he's missed his chance.

Doitsuyama Yokozuna

Doitsuyama

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Well, different answers in different times. Look at Konishiki's performance more closely and you'll agree that the competition in his middle basho wasn't hot. The two yokozuna 0-0-15 and 0-4-11, the second ozeki 8-7, both sekiwake went make-koshi. The yusho went to an M2, the jun-yusho to a komusubi. Getting 12-3 in those circumstances just isn't looking right for a yokozuna candidate.

This basho on the other hand we have a competitive yokozuna in place (which also makes a new yokozuna promotion difficult; most yokozuna promotions occur when the current top is weak for some reason), and a sekiwake getting the jun-yusho. Not to forget the other three ozeki and the second sekiwake all getting kachi-koshi as well. Also, Tochiazuma won against both yusho and jun-yusho winner.

All in all I think there are enough differences between Tochiazuma's 12-3 and Konishiki's 12-3 to say that the circumstances just aren't exactly the same.

Even the first basho isn't the same with Konishiki getting 13-2 yusho ahead of a komusubi with the yokozuna going 0-0-15 and 4-4-7. Tochiazuma was 14-1 to start with. In Konishiki's third basho the yokozuna was 0-3-12 with Konishiki getting a 13-2 yusho again, ahead of a komusubi and a M2.

Edit: Oh, and the Futahaguro incident still was pretty fresh. Now it's really old. Futahaguro even is in friendly contact with the Kyokai again nowadays.

Edited by Doitsuyama
Asashosakari Dai-yokozuna

Asashosakari

Posted
Posted
What I don't quite understand is all that talk about Tochiazuma "carrying over" to Natsu. He had a 12-3 with no jun-yusho this time, exactly like Konishiki in his "middle" basho. Why should Tochiazuma be treated more lenient this time?

Because the entire Futahaguro-inspired period was pretty much a historical aberration and there's no point to sticking to bad precedent?

Otokonoyama Yokozuna

Otokonoyama

Posted
Posted
What I don't quite understand is all that talk about Tochiazuma "carrying over" to Natsu. He had a 12-3 with no jun-yusho this time, exactly like Konishiki in his "middle" basho. Why should Tochiazuma be treated more lenient this time? (and please don't open that can of worms again and give the "obvious" answer)

In my opinion he should be back at square one now.

IIRC, Kitanoumi Rijicho mentioned the carry-over at some point recently...

Kishinoyama Ozeki

Kishinoyama

Posted
Posted
Well, different answers in different times. Look at Konishiki's performance more closely and you'll agree that the competition in his middle basho wasn't hot. The two yokozuna 0-0-15 and 0-4-11, the second ozeki 8-7, both sekiwake went make-koshi. The yusho went to an M2, the jun-yusho to a komusubi. Getting 12-3 in those circumstances just isn't looking right for a yokozuna candidate.

The M2 was Takanohana and the Komusubi was Akebono both fututre Yokozuna. I understand your point about competiton being tougher for Tochiazuma than for Konishiki but, to me third place is third place. If Tochiazuma goes 14-1 or 15-0 next time then he will be promoted. IMO Anything less than that and he would not get promoted, even with a 13-2 yusho. ;-)

Mattjila Maegashira

Mattjila

Posted
Posted

Well, I figure we just have to wait for Jonosuke's patented Rikishi Talk to know about this. I'm sure the rijicho or someone will make a comment about about the YDC. Even then, the YDC itself convenes tomorrow, right?

I'm guessing we'll hear praise for Asa, Hakuho, and Tochiazuma, but there will be a carry-over to the next basho.

Kishinoyama Ozeki

Kishinoyama

Posted
Posted
Once again, a yokozuna candidate falls just one win short of the required 13 wins, and once again, Miyabiyama turns out to be a stumbling-block.

;-) I did not know Miyabiyama has a history of being a stumbling-block! Can you or someone else give me some more examples? :-O

Jejima Dai-yokozuna

Jejima

Posted
Posted

Once again, a yokozuna candidate falls just one win short of the required 13 wins, and once again, Miyabiyama turns out to be a stumbling-block.

;-) I did not know Miyabiyama has a history of being a stumbling-block! Can you or someone else give me some more examples? :-O

You beat me to it, but I guess after Tosanoumi, he is right up there with the stumbling-block brigade. Although I prefer to think of him affectionately as a 'Miyabiflobmonster.'

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