Keiko news March 2006- Hakuhou

[Jonosuke]

Thanks Doitsu and Mado san for pointing out my misinterpretation.

OK, now that Hakuho thing is clear, I just want to pursue on Hakuho's father then. I assume Hakuho's father and Asashoryu's father knew each other well as well as their respective son. I believe both sons were involved in judo and Mongolian sumo one time or another while they were growing up in Mongolia. When Asashoryu came to Japan, he came as an exchange student to Meitoku Gijuku School in Kochi (his tuition sponsored by the school but I do not believe it was for a sumo scholarship).

Obviously at this time there was no certainty that Asashoryu would remain and pursue a career in Ozumo eventually. Likely at the time, it was more or less thought that he would go back to Mongolia once his education was over. Was Hakuho's father upset when Asashoryu first left Mongolia to come to study in Japan, leaving his training in Mongoia behind or much later on when Asashoryu decided to join Ozumo by quitting the school, so in all likelihood he would not come back to continue in Mongolian sumo. When did Hakuho's father convey his displeasure to Asashoryu's father?

Did Hakuho's father indicate to Asashoryu's father of his feeling personally? If so, what was his justification on having his own son to go to Japan for a strict reason on joining Ozumo, not ostensively for an academic reason as Asashoryu originally came to Japan?

These may be small points to many but I just want to get the historical facts correct so we don't introduce an urban legend of some kind here.

[madorosumaru]

As I mentioned before, there are various versions to the story, but quasi-official bios and other relatively-reliable sources have it this way:

Hakuho's father and Asashoryu's father were both involved in Mongolian sumo but were of different stature. Hakuho's father was a legendary dai-yokozuna and an Olympic silver medal winner in wrestling. In another words, a national hero to the Mongolian people. Asashoryu's father was "sekiwake-level (elephant)" in Mongolian sumo and is the patriarch of a kakutogi family.

Asashoryu trained in judo as a youngster--at the same dojo as Asasekiryu and Tokitenku. He started Mongolian sumo at age 15 and, the following year, won the junior division of the Naadam tournament and was known as the "Junior Yokozuna." At 17, he entered the adult tournament and defeated a komusubi-level opponent. 翌年のナーダム祭ではモンゴル相撲の少年大会で優勝して「ハルツァグ」(大鷹を意味し、少年横綱に相当する)の称号を得た。17歳の時にはナーダム祭のモンゴル相撲の成年大会に参加して小結に勝つ程だった。

Hakuho, on the other hand, was a basketball center as a kid. As for sumo, he did it only to the extent of fooling around with friends. He went to Japan, as we discussed earlier, through the connection of Kyokushuzan. 旭鷲山に紹介されて来日し、入門を夢見て摂津倉庫で相撲を教わっていた.

Although Asashoryu was interested in sumo, he did not have ozumo in mind when he went to Japan. Here is an excerpt from an article on Asashoryu from several years ago:

Edited February 22, 2006 by madorosumaru

[Jonosuke]

Again, there are other versions of the story which someone like Gacktoh-san can elaborate on.

And that's precisely what I want to avoid - having too many versions of the same event. Who knows I could live to be 100 years old and may need to do a "Rikishi of Old" piece on Hakuho or Asashoryu for some online magazine (Blushing...)

If Hakuho's father made that comment at the time Asashoryu left for Japan, well, Asashoryu's father did not know whether his son would turn out to be a rikishi eventually so it wasn't really an appropriate one. I don't know what type of relationship Asashoryu's father and Hakuho's father have (perhaps something like Kitanoumi and Matsugane?) but they did not appear to be really close buddies (they were sitting at the same section in Vegas but not sitting side by side or fairly close to each other).

If Hakuho's father made the comment when Asashoryu joined Ozumo, it still wasn't relevant. To Asashoryu's father, he did not "send" Asashoryu to Japan for a specific purpose to join Ozumo. I know I am being very finicky here as when I saw Hakuho's father in Vegas, he appeared to be a quite dignified gentleman and he did not look like someone who'd make a throwaway comment like he was quoted without a reason. If he did make such a comment, then I'd like to know very much more about the circumstance or background on when he said it and why he said it.

Edited February 22, 2006 by Jonosuke

[madorosumaru]

Who knows I could live to be 100 years old and may need to do a "Rikishi of Old" piece on Hakuho or Asashoryu for some online magazine

You will live to be 100 unless you worry yourself sick over minor matters. (Blushing...) In any case, by that time your reputation would be such that your version (regardless of what it is) would be the gospel.

60 or 70 years from now, people will be happy with any version of the story--that is, if they cared at all. 60 to 70 years ago, Futabayama sent the famous telegram about the "wooden rooster" and people are still arguing over the actual quote or the circumstances surrounding the incident. :-D There is no such thing as a "single, definitive version" of anything--to wit, Kurosawa's "Rashomon."

As I intimated in my earlier post, the two fathers knew of each other and probably wrestled contemporaneously, but they were of different stature so they would not be "socializing" with each other. By all reports, Asashoryu was very poor when he was growing up. To quote the aforementioned Mrs. N.,

Edited February 22, 2006 by madorosumaru

[BuBa]

If Hakuho's father made the comment when Asashoryu joined Ozumo, it still wasn't relevant. To Asashoryu's father, he did not "send" Asashoryu to Japan for a specific purpose to join Ozumo. I know I am being very finicky here as when I saw Hakuho's father in Vegas, he appeared to be a quite dignified gentleman and he did not look like someone who'd make a throwaway comment like he was quoted without a reason. If he did make such a comment, then I'd like to know very much more about the circumstance or background on when he said it and why he said it.

Hakuho's father has made the comment for a fact in a newspaper interview. And young Dorj was leaving for Japan for specific purpose of joining the ozumo. This was clear to every one to that time. Making them attend the school served as an accommodation for visa, and of course for learning the language. Why he said it? Well to that time, despite of relatively successful career of the Trio, sumo still wasn't taken seriously in Mongolia and I bet Hakuho's father didn't see it as something worth of a young talent.

As of Hakuho's father being a dignified gentleman, he is and was most outspoken 'bohe' of our times, well-known for his often misplaced comments and trash talk. There are quite a few stories and anecdotes about it. But this does not take away from his accomplishments and respect among Mongolians.

As I intimated in my earlier post, the two fathers knew of each other and probably wrestled contemporaneously, but they were of different stature so they would not be "socializing" with each other. By all reports, Asashoryu was very poor when he was growing up. To quote the aforementioned Mrs. N., “I was sitting in front of the cash register and Dorj was sitting on a metal chair. When I asked him, ‘How much allowance do your folks send you?’ he replied, ‘Allowance? They never send anything like that.’ I then offered him 200 yen, but he got all flushed with anger, ‘It’s okay. I can’t accept that. Do you know how much 200 yen is worth in Mongolia?’ That was our very first conversation.”

Hakuho, from all indications, was middle class or above. He was what the Japanese would call a "bot'chan." Many in sumo say that their vastly different upbringing accounts for the different attitude and approach each rikishi has on the dohyo. In any case, it is probably safe to say that the two families did not run in the same social circles

Although in Mongolian wrestling the rank hierarchy does exist, it certainly won't separate the wrestlers to the extent of not being able to 'socialize' together. While Hakuho's and Asa's fathers might not be a very close friends, they know each other very well, so well that for instance one can make a comment on rather familiar matter of the other, like sending a son to a foreign country, or having a drink or two together etc. In general wrestlers in Mongolia are one big society by their own, every boh starting with a minor state rank and up pretty much know each other.

As for class difference between the two families, I don't see how it would be that much different , both families having been in former communist country. The start was pretty much on one level. The distinction between haves and don't haves has just began in Mongolia. If Asa and Hakuho have different demeanor on and off the dohyo that certainly does not come from their upbringings.

Besides reading about Mongolian rikishis coming from 'oh so poor circumstances' makes me wonder too. Usually the high ranking wrestler families are well-off, some of them even by western standards. I know for fact that some recruits have paid tickets and expenses by their own.

By the way 200 yen to that time was a price for 2 packs of cigarettes in Mongolia. Imagine some one asks you about you financial situation and offers 2 dollars, that's just insulting.

Edited February 23, 2006 by BuBa

[Jonosuke]

As of Hakuho's father being a dignified gentleman, he is and was most outspoken 'bohe' of our times, well-known for his often misplaced comments and trash talk. There are quite a few stories and anecdotes about it. But this does not take away from his accomplishments and respect among Mongolians.

This is a revealation for me. Obviously I have not been able to talk to Hakuho's father personally or hear him in Mongolia (even then I don't understand the language). I was merely trying to understand and search for a thread that is stringing it altogether.

From your description of Mongolian wrestling community, Hakuho and Asashoryu basically shared the same upbringing and background as well as they knew each other's family before they arrived in Japan. The fact that the seven rikishis came to Japan through Kyokushuzan, where does Kyokushuzan fit into this equation?

How is Kyokushuzan seen in Mongolia? How about Kyokutenho? Both are sekitoris with some distinction in Ozumo but how are they being seen in Mongolia especially by those in Mongolian wrestling community? I am not really looking for some kind of rifts among the Mongolian sekitoris in Japan but I am really curious to know how each is seen within Mongolian wrestling community.

I am sorry if I am taking this thread way off-topic but I find this subject truly fascinating but I may set up its own thread if we can continue on.

[Kintamayama]

- Obviously the Settsu Warehouse was used for a training ground (as Settsu has a strong presence in amateur sumo),

Hakuhou went there today for the first time since he left, 5 years and three months ago. "The smell is still the same.. I'm feeling elated..", said an emotional Hakuhou.

[Kintamayama]

Hakuhou went to Dewanoumi for keiko and had 21 bouts against Kasugou and Futenou, no results given. He is at his heaviest ever, 156 kilos. "I'm a bit heavy.. I want to do quick sumo, so I better shape up..", he said, hinting he may try to slim down in the coming days before the basho. his front mawashi grabbing and forward moving looked strong. "He looks much better now than he did last year when he had the look of a dead fish..", said his mentor Kumagatani Oyakata.

Edited March 8, 2006 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama]

Miyagino-beya is looking for a double promotion: Hakuhou to Ozeki and Makushita Ryuuou ( a 5-2 at Makushita east 9 last basho should put him way up there..) to Juryo for the first time. "Promotion together?? I shall gambarize!", said Ryuuou.

I just noticed they share a birthday. Both born on March 11th, Hakuhou two years younger.

[Kintamayama]

Last day of training - 24 bouts against Makushita from his heya, a lot of sanban with Ryuoou, who is also Mongolian and both had their birthday today. "21, huh? So quickly.. I feel like a middle-aged man. I'd love to go back to being 18", he quipped. After the keiko he lent his chest to some Junior high school kids from a Sumo club.

Hakuhou and Juniors:

Edited March 11, 2006 by Kintamayama