YDC summarizes

[Kintamayama]

"You have to clearly differentiate between Asashouryuu's sumo before he was injured and after he was injured," said Ms. Uchidate, surprisingly sympathetic towards the Yokozuna. "We are expecting the birth of a Japanese Yokozuna. I'd like Tochiazuma to go in that direction. If he gets 13 wins and a yusho he will be certain of the promotion, " added Chairman Ishibashi. Regarding Asashouryuu, he said :"He was injured- it ( the disappointing performance) was unavoidable..". On Kotooushuu: "His hips are still too high. As a shin-Ozeki, he just barely fulfilled the obligation of an Ozeki."

Kitanoumi rijicho: " If Tochiazuma gets a 13-2 record and loses in a playoff, it should be enough for a promotion." There is even a general agreement among YDC members that a 12-3 yusho will be enough, says the article.

Edited January 23, 2006 by Kintamayama

[Tomoe]

Always the same talking about a new yokozuna if...if Tochiazuma will not lose his heart this time he possibly will become Yokozuna (Whistling...) (one day...maybe)

In my opinion too many if's and maybe's.... (Yusho winner...)

[Hananotaka]

Always the same talking about a new yokozuna if...if Tochiazuma will not lose his heart this time he possibly will become Yokozuna (Whistling...) (one day...maybe)

In my opinion too many if's and maybe's.... (Yusho winner...)

Well, people forget that it took Takanohana 4 tries to make yokozuna. Four times for Musashimaru, too.

[Jonosuke]

Tochiazuma will not lose his heart this time he possibly will become Yokozuna

In case of Tochiazuma, it never was his heart but his body that broke down.

Despite beating Kotooshu, even Asashoryu looked rather ordinary in the last two days after he got injured. An injury will do that to you.

When Musashimaru initially injured his wrist, I never paid much attention. Here we were talking about the "Iron Man" - never got injured and so reliable one basho after another. But then after the injury, he was never the same man. It was the beginning of the end. I am not saying the same thing about Asashoryu but since Asashoryu relies so much on speed and techniques, a rather minor injury can wreck havoc on his sumo.

The way Asashoryu has been competing even against larger guys, wears and tears will take a toll. He is no longer training as hard as he used to perhaps to conserve as much energy for hon-bashos but he will need to focus more on conservative sumo rather going for splashy moves like tsuriotoshi and tsukiotoshi at the tawara that could put more stress to his body.

Edited January 23, 2006 by Jonosuke

[Asashosakari]

Kitanoumi rijicho: " If Tochiazuma gets a 13-2 record and loses in a playoff, it should be enough for a promotion." There is even a general agreement among YDC members that a 12-3 yusho will be enough, says the article.

Ack! Well, I guess we're starting with the sensible pronouncements this time since there are still six weeks to the next basho. (Whistling...) I'm sure we'll get to hear from Oshiogawa closer to the basho and be informed that he actually needs a 14-1 yusho now.

[aderechelsea]

that "Yusho and 13 wins" looks nonsense to me ...

they WON'T try to deny a Yokozuna promotion with 2 yushos in a row even if it is an 11 win play-off with 5 other rikishi ...

I agree with Asashosakari-san's opinion that all this talk will change from mouth to mouth and from day to day untill Haru basho senshuraku ....

[Jonosuke]

that "Yusho and 13 wins" looks nonsense to me ...

But it's not just a 13 win record. It's the 13 win record and going into the Yusho Kettei-sen.

It's all in line with the yokozuna promotion rule. It's two consecutive yusho or the equivalent record, so it means he needs to have the most wins in Makuuchi regardless.

[aderechelsea]

I

f Tochiazuma gets a 13-2 record and loses in a playoff, it should be enough for a promotion." There is even a general agreement among YDC members that a 12-3 yusho will be enough

i was quoting Kitanoumi's statement in which he guesses (Whistling...) "12 wins and a yusho should be ok" ...

i say even 10 wins should be ok if they contain a yusho ....

An Ozeki would have won 2 yusho in a row ... what more do they need?

[Asashosakari]

that "Yusho and 13 wins" looks nonsense to me ...

But it's not just a 13 win record. It's the 13 win record and going into the Yusho Kettei-sen.

It's all in line with the yokozuna promotion rule. It's two consecutive yusho or the equivalent record, so it means he needs to have the most wins in Makuuchi regardless.

Well, I'll put my foot down in favour of the Kaio/Chiyotaikai interpretation that seemed to be used most recently, i.e. 13 wins will (or at least should) always be considered yusho-equivalent, no matter if it's 13-2D, 13-2J or 13-2alsoran. (In practice, 13-2 has been less than jun-yusho only a handful of times, three of them for Ozeki - ironically enough, one of them was promoted to Yokozuna afterwards.)

As far as Kitanoumi's statement goes, look at it like this: Tochiazuma loses 2 bouts during the next basho, but beats Asashoryu, for a 13-2 record. If Asashoryu doesn't lose anything else, he'll win an outright 14-1 yusho. If somebody else happens to beat him, Tochiazuma has the chance to take part in a 13-2 playoff, which he'll lose, for the sake of argument. In the first situation he's out of luck, in the second one he'll be considered for Yokozuna promotion. Does that make any sense to anybody? Granted, it's a special case (and one can always say, "well, Azuma shouldn't have lost those other two bouts"), but you're essentially putting Tochiazuma's promotion chances at the mercy of the rest of the field. By insisting on two yusho, you more or less require that any new Yokozuna be better than all existing ones. I don't agree with that notion, since all it does is favour those guys who make their push for Yokozuna when the existing ones are injured or declining.

Edited January 23, 2006 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama]

More from Ms. Uchidate: On Asashouryuu - "You have to separate the arm injury from the insufficient keiko before the basho. I wonder if his excessive trips to Mongolia are befitting someone who wears the tsuna.. If he would do sufficient keiko he would certainly be the strongest Yokozuna..""

Chairman Ishibashi: "If you take into consideration the Yokozuna's responsibility, I would have hoped to see him win at least 13."

Yup, it was too good to be true.

Edited January 23, 2006 by Kintamayama

[Randomitsuki]

If he would do sufficient keiko he would certainly be the strongest Yokozuna..""

Bugger. I always thought that he IS the strongest yokozuna right now. (Whistling...)

[Kintamayama]

If he would do sufficient keiko he would certainly be the strongest Yokozuna..""

Bugger. I always thought that he IS the strongest yokozuna right now. (Neener, neener...)

Should have read "strongest OF Yokozunas".

[Bishonohana]

That's harsh....(Clapping wildly...) (Neener, neener...) no love for the Asa from YDC... (Clapping wildly...)

[Flying_Monkey]

I'd like to see Ms. Uchidate get into the ring with Asa... sufficient keiko or not!

[slt]

Seems to me like Ms. Uchidate's statement was quite flattering, rather than negative. I don't think I've "heard" her say anything close to Asashoryu being "the strongest of Yokozunas" until today. Of course, she doesn't actually say he IS, but she clearly states that he has the potential to be just that !!

[_the_mind_]

By insisting on two yusho, you more or less require that any new Yokozuna be better than all existing ones. I don't agree with that notion, since all it does is favour those guys who make their push for Yokozuna when the existing ones are injured or declining.

very well said, thats how i feel too. it requires someone (ozeki) be flat out better then Asa or catch a time when he is injured for two basho in a row and win them both. more then highly unlikely in either situation.

[Kintamayama]

Ms. Outofdate is doing her job. She is an avid sumo fan who expects nothing but perfection from her Yokozuna. You can love her or hate her, but that's what she's there for-to deliberate on the Yokozuna.. She has all the respect for him, be sure of that. She just doesn't want to see him slacking on tradition, training, number of wins, etc.

"Even in the kingdom of gloves, there is place for finger-pointing". Stewart (Stu) Pid.

[AsaMoe]

Two opinions of mine:

1) Making Tochiazuma Yokuzuna puts him on the same level as Asashoryu, which will not ok, if Asashoryu constantly wins all bashos. If Asashoryu is strong enough to hinder everyone else winning two bashos in a row, there is no place for a second Yokuzuna. Bad Luck.

2) Even if Tochiazuma becomes Ozeki, he will not be comparable to Asashoryu. It may even be, that he will never win a basho afterwards and retire early. I would like him to become Yokuzuna, but only if he really deserves it.

[Sanvean]

2) Even if Tochiazuma becomes Ozeki, he will not be comparable to Asashoryu. It may even be, that he will never win a basho afterwards and retire early. I would like him to become Yokuzuna, but only if he really deserves it.

Actually, Zuma is already an Ozeki. (Eh?) You probably meant Yokozuna.

I must say that I agree more with AsaMoe - if an Ozeki wants to become a Yokozuna, he must proove that he is capable of winning with the other Yokozuna, no matter how strong he is. Of course, it will never give equal chances to everybody - some will heave easier road to become a Yokozuna, others might have it harder.

On Tochiazuma retiring - I belive that only very serious injury would force him to retire. But let us hope anything like that won't ever happen. ;-)

[Kintamayama]

just take a look at tochiazumas head to head with asashoryu and tell me he is not "capable2

He is capable9, for sure.

[AsaMoe]

disagree. if tochiazuma wins in march then he deserves to be yokozuna. its not required that he achieve the level of asashoryu who looks like he will be one of the all-time greats.

I dont think, that we disagree.

If he wins two bashos in a row, he deserves it. And if Asashoryu wins enough bashos to prevent any other rikishi from winning two bashos, well than bad luck, but than there will be only one Yokuzuna.

[_the_mind_]

Two opinions of mine:

1) Making Tochiazuma Yokuzuna puts him on the same level as Asashoryu, which will not ok, if Asashoryu constantly wins all bashos. If Asashoryu is strong enough to hinder everyone else winning two bashos in a row, there is no place for a second Yokuzuna. Bad Luck.

2) Even if Tochiazuma becomes Ozeki, he will not be comparable to Asashoryu. It may even be, that he will never win a basho afterwards and retire early. I would like him to become Yokuzuna, but only if he really deserves it.

according to the logic of this, you are saying that a new yokozuna can only be yokozuna if he is going to potentially beat out the existing yokozuna for yushos. ....that logic is flawed when you are dealing with one of the most dominant yokozunas on the bazunke already. your deaming only if someone comes in and is a better fighter then the Yokozuna with 5th most yusho ever can he be a yokozuna. i hope you dont feel anyone else deserves to be yokozuna during Taiho and Chiyonofuji's reign either, unless they were on their down side of their career and not the constant threat anymore. Which implies that while a dominant yokozuna is at his peak, you think no one else should be allowed to make yokozuna under any circumstances(baring the 2 yushos), no matter how long he is at that peak. im afraid the history of the banzuke will not reflect that. the 2 yusho rule is not an old rule that all yokozunas had to live up to. only 5 have been able to do it.

[Guest Neo]

I think Tochiazuma can become a yokozuna not depending on how strong Asashoryu is performing. If Asa wins a 15-0 yusho and Tochiazuma wins 14, losing only to Asa, Tochiazuma will probably be promoted.

[AsaMoe]

according to the logic of this, you are saying that a new yokozuna can only be yokozuna if he is going to potentially beat out the existing yokozuna for yushos

Maybe i have expressed myself.

Of course, i do not think, that Tochiazuma can only become Yokuzuna, if he wins more than 15 Yusho. But in my opinion he has to show, that he is really capable of beating Asashoryu, i.e. only two Yusho in a row will be sufficient. And in my opinion it will also be acceptable, if Tochiazuma score 14-1 after Asahoryu with 15-0, because he has won a sound Yusho in Hatsu.

I simply do not like the idea, that someone becomes Yokuzuna with two 13-2 "Yusho-equivalents". And i do not like the idea, that a second rikishi will become Yokuzuna, when Asashoryu wins 5 or 6 basho a year.

[Guest asolyom]

Two opinions of mine:

1) Making Tochiazuma Yokuzuna puts him on the same level as Asashoryu, which will not ok, if Asashoryu constantly wins all bashos. If Asashoryu is strong enough to hinder everyone else winning two bashos in a row, there is no place for a second Yokuzuna. Bad Luck.

2) Even if Tochiazuma becomes Ozeki, he will not be comparable to Asashoryu. It may even be, that he will never win a basho afterwards and retire early. I would like him to become Yokuzuna, but only if he really deserves it.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. For example in 1989 beside the great yokozuna Chiyonofuji there was two other yokozunas (Onokuni and Hokutoumi) on the banzuke. They win bashos very rarely because Chiyonofuji was so dominant. Onokuni won only 1 basho as yokozuna and 1 as ozeki. Nevertheless all three of them were great rikishis, and deserved the yokozuna rank.