Invitation to play Sekitori-Toto & Sekitori-Oracle

[Zenjimoto]

Hmm, that is perfectly BIZARRE... I can only restate my frequent opinion that Microsoft S (Censored) CKS :-( Glad you found a way around it, though... now, if you can only get your fighting spirits back and secure KK today (but not at my expense, please, LOL) (Showing tongue at someone...)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

[Kashunowaka]

now, if you can only get your fighting spirits back and secure KK today (but not at my expense, please, LOL)  (Showing tongue at someone...)

Yoavoshimaru: good job securing that kachi-koshi on Zenjimoto's expense :-(

[Zenjimoto]

now, if you can only get your fighting spirits back and secure KK today (but not at my expense, please, LOL)  (Showing tongue at someone...)

Yoavoshimaru: good job securing that kachi-koshi on Zenjimoto's expense :-)

I'll be sure to remember it when I decide on your next banzuke position :-(

Nah... I wasn't even CLOSE today... it's never a good sign when you get beaten by Exidrono!! (Hitting with chair...)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

Edited May 23, 2003 by Zenjimoto

[Yoavoshimaru]

Thank you :-)

I just barely secured it today: the lowest winning score... Well, I guess it balances me having had some of the highest losing scores in days 8-11... :-(

[Fujisan]

Hi Zenji,Can you tell me what my final score for Toto was?

Im sure I got my KK but I think I finished 9-6 but thats just guessing.

[Doitsuyama]

If I may chime in, you won the last two days and finished 8-7. The results can be seen here: http://sekitoto.sumogames.com/SekiToto.asp?WCI=Results

[Fujisan]

Thanks Doitsu,my Isp cant load the results page,thats why I was asking Zenjimoto-

8-7 hmmm less than I thought but I think its my only KK of all the games Ive taken part in this basho.

Although I think ive done well in Gisp my scoring seems above average averaging 5 points a day.

[Kashunowaka]

Thanks Doitsu,my Isp cant load the results page,thats why I was asking Zenjimoto-

8-7 hmmm less than I thought but I think its my only KK of all the games Ive taken part in this basho.

Although I think ive done well in Gisp my scoring seems above average averaging 5 points a day.

I haven't been able to connect to GISP since the basho started.

[Kintamayama]

I haven't been able to connect to GISP since the basho started.

Try this:http://www.gunga.com/Sumo/Standings/standing.htm

[Kashunowaka]

I haven't been able to connect to GISP since the basho started.

Try this:http://www.gunga.com/Sumo/Standings/standing.htm

I cannot connect to http://www.gunga.com at all, so that didn't help :-D Thanks anyway.

How did I do in GISP? :-(

[jomojo]

How did I do in GISP? :-D

hi Kashunowaka, you scored 76 points in GISP. you were in joint 10th place (along with with me). so, well done. there were a total of 75 players and the top score was 83 by Pastanoyama.

cheers,

jomojo :-(

[Takanobaka]

:-D

roar....3 days (including the last) where I was the first person out of winning and 2 days I couldn't log in = blah. Looks like I'll be needing a long time to work my way to the top....

Had fun though. Next time, I'll try not to embarrass myself quite so much. That, and my g/f wants to start up as well and have some kind of friendly wager to see who finishes with the better record, so things could get interesting....

Oh, and congrats to Kintamayama for taking home the Yusho :-(

Edited May 25, 2003 by Takanobaka

[Yoavoshimaru]

That, and my g/f wants to start up as well and have some kind of friendly wager

That should be competitive and interesting to watch :-D

[Fujisan]

Better than me I scored 67,I think I finished somewhere in the middle 35th or something.

Edited May 29, 2003 by Fujisan

[Fujisan]

Hate to ask the obvious Zenji but when will the new Banzuke be published?

[Zenjimoto]

Hate to ask the obvious Zenji but when will the new Banzuke be published?

Actually, the new banzuke has been posted since yesterday :) I haven't announced it yet, though, just in case I feel like I need to fiddle with something after sleeping on it, and coming back to say "what was I thinking??" :-D (Applauding...) (Laughing...)

Top Secret! The Sekitori-Oracle banzuke is also up at this time (Being ninja...)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

[Yubiquitoyama]

Top Secret! The Sekitori-Oracle banzuke is also up at this time (Applauding...)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

I do feel like a bad loser when saying this, but I can't but remain being a little sceptical about the scheme behind the sekitori-oracle banzuke. As an example, I got the exact number of points as Gachinco this basho and the result was that I went from M15w to M14e (from last to next-to-last Makunouchi rank) while Gachinco went from J04w to M13w. Kazetoshi, being ranked at J01e last time got several points less than me, but got elevated to M12w. It seems one should be ranked high in a group to be easily elevated over the low-ranked of the higher group. That does seem a bit strange to me.

[Zenjimoto]

I know where you are coming from... it comes with being on the butt-end of a particular banzuke group/division... as a Makuuchi, you are held to a higher standard than a Juryo (in order to keep the banzuke as workable as possible). Indeed, you would be much better off had you been in Juryo itself, even if that makes little sense from a scoring point of view...

I'd have to equivocate it with real sumo in such a way that, a 10-5 in Juryo (even at the higher ranks) would probably be a comparable performance to an 8-7 in lower Makuuchi as well (although obviously there is no way to measure this)... but, competition is obviously tougher in the upper ranks. Since the divisional records are calculated to balance wins and losses amongst all players, and obviously the better players are in the upper positions, the better players have to perform better against their peers, while, say, Juryo ranked players "only" need to perform against the "second tier" of players. So yes, the playing field is not even when it comes to divisions, but then, that is the whole idea, and that is also how it goes in Ozumo, isn't it? :)

Cheers

Zenjimoto

[Feginowaka]

I don

[Zenjimoto]

The Sekitori-Toto Banzuke is naturally rather static as there are many good scores at the top and therfore the make-koshis should be demoted a little bit more than usual.

I know what I

[Zenjimoto]

I know what I

[Doitsuyama]

I'd have to equivocate it with real sumo in such a way that, a 10-5 in Juryo (even at the higher ranks) would probably be a comparable performance to an 8-7 in lower Makuuchi as well (although obviously there is no way to measure this)... but, competition is obviously tougher in the upper ranks.

I follow your reasoning and in principle I have to say, you're right, and it's no wonder a Juryo gets a better record with the same strength than the Makuuchi and might be better placed on the next banzuke. I just have to agree with Yubiquitoyama that it is VERY un-Ozumo-like that he got overtaken by a Juryo rikishi inspite of a kachi-koshi. Just watch the Ozumo banzuke and you'll see that a Juryo ALMOST NEVER overtakes a kachi-koshi Makuuchi. So the banzuke really looks a bit fishy here.

BUT - I have to say something to your casual remark (although obviously there is no way to measure this). Of course you can measure this... I even have a measurement system for exactly this purpose (well, ok, maybe for other purposes too... (Being ninja...) ) and I can tell you that in Ozumo a performance in low Makuuchi with a 7-8 is pretty much equivalent with a 9-6 in high Juryo; you can just add or subtract two wins. The same difference can be seen between mid-Makuuchi and the joi-jin region. Miyabiyama's 10-5 had about the same calculated "strength" as the 8-7 from Musoyama, Tochiazuma or Tochinonada. The difference between mid-Makuuchi and lower Makuuchi is smaller (about one win) because the slate of opponents is not that much different between these two regions. For example Hokutoriki's 6-9 was very comparable to Aogiyama's 7-8.

An another (but related) topic: The joi-jin in Seki-Oracle really is getting stiff. I finished pretty good in the history of Seki-Oracle (16/132, 7/119, 12/106, 16/96, 11/71), and got scores of 9-6, 10-5, 10-5, 8-7 and 11-4 (in reverse order). My rank since Kyushu was: M1w, M1e, K2e, K1w, K1w. My rank now wouldn't probably be that much different if my first basho had been pretty bad and I started in Juryo or so (for once no promotion congestion, and secondly much better adjusted records).

Finally another totally different topic... Now that I had 22 wins in Sanyaku over the last two basho in Seki-Toto, what is my mark next basho to become the first Ozeki in the history of Seki-Toto? (Applauding...) I LOVED your "markings of death" in the banzuke. Up to now everyone crumbled with your mark attached to it, don't you remember that too vividly? :-D

[Asashosakari]

depending on the luck of the banzuke, and what goes on around a player, [results] will have to be treated differently in different regions of the banzuke.

Don't I know it...from ms15e to ms7w with a simple 8-6-1, wow. :-P The check's in the mail, Zenjimoto. (Being ninja...) (Laughing...) ;-)

Now that I had 22 wins in Sanyaku over the last two basho in Seki-Toto, what is my mark next basho to become the first Ozeki in the history of Seki-Toto?  (Applauding...) I LOVED your "markings of death" in the banzuke. Up to now everyone crumbled with your mark attached to it, don't you remember that too vividly?  :-D

That's been pretty funny to watch indeed. Although somebody's got to break through sooner or later, and with (I think) 4 Ozeki potentials for Nagoya, maybe it's finally time for the first ST Ozeki. :-)

[Zenjimoto]

I follow your reasoning and in principle I have to say, you're right, and it's no wonder a Juryo gets a better record with the same strength than the Makuuchi and might be better placed on the next banzuke. I just have to agree with Yubiquitoyama that it is VERY un-Ozumo-like that he got overtaken by a Juryo rikishi inspite of a kachi-koshi. Just watch the Ozumo banzuke and you'll see that a Juryo ALMOST NEVER overtakes a kachi-koshi Makuuchi. So the banzuke really looks a bit fishy here.

Yes, I am aware of that "rule" (Applauding...) I went back and forth on that for a while, then I remembered that just a banzuke ago or so, Asasekiryu made his Makuuchi debut ahead of a KK Maegashira, and I decided, what the heck! :)

Maybe I should put the "markings of death" back on the banzuke then... no need to break the jinx now, is there? ESPECIALLY since I myself was a victim! :D

Cheers

Zenjimoto

Edited June 5, 2003 by Zenjimoto

[Doitsuyama]

Yes, I am aware of that "rule" (Applauding...) I went back and forth on that for a while, then I remembered that just a banzuke ago or so, Asasekiryu made his Makuuchi debut ahead of a KK Maegashira, and I decided, what the heck! :)

Yes, that's correct... but still Asasekiryu and Buyuzan were 11-4 to Tamarikido's 8-7, and they were following him almost directly on the banzuke. Still this looks like one of the countless aberrations of the Kyokai from earlier unwritten "guidelines". Those "aberrations" are annoying the heck out of some accomplished GTB players (not me)...