For those that get ESPN2

[Cammy]

If you get ESPN2 friday night december 30 they are showing the world sumo challenge.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/tvlisting...rk=02&sport=all

Very bottom of the page it is on twice.

Sumo on ESPN!!!

[Zentoryu]

It was also supposed to be on twice last week, but they showed poker both times instead.

Edited December 27, 2005 by Zentoryu

[Cammy]

Well lets hope that they will show it and not poker...since that is pretty much all they have on.

Edited December 27, 2005 by Cammy

[yamaneko]

I watched it the other day. Its not on twice, I made that mistake too. its actually part one and part two.

[Cammy]

I watched it the other day. Its not on twice, I made that mistake too. its actually part one and part two.

Thanks for letting me know that it is part one and two, since ESPN doesn't say that.

[kenzo]

just seen the whole show , it looks great, this is just what is needed to promote non ozumo

[Sasanishiki]

just seen the whole show , it looks great, this is just what is needed to promote non ozumo

Ah, at last something to provoke some debate!! Be warned, I've woken up with a slightly argumentative streak today. Also, I'm basing this argument on the things I've seen in the photos of the event, the write-ups I've read and the tournament website, not from having seen it on ESPN or otherwise.

I have to disagree myself. I do not think the NY event promotes "amateur sumo" as a whole. Rather it promotes "non ozumo" as you suggest.

What do I mean by this? Well, amateur sumo is a sport with a range of weight classes for both men and women. It needs all of these to become an Olympic sport (I have my doubts it ever will be, but that is another debate). This kind of event in the US does not promote the range and breadth of amateur sumo and so does not truly promote the whole idea of the sport to a new public. Rather, what has been promoted with this event is really an amateur (and international) version of ozumo, whereby only men compete in an openweight competition for prize money. Now, throw in some of the promoters' Orientalist tendencies to make this seem more Japanese (or actually just more "Asian" as some of the gimmicks/back-stories are pretty far fetched) and you have an attempt to replicate something close to ozumo just in North America with a whole range of nationalities. Mainly big guys but throw in a couple of small ones to give the crowd an underdog to root for.

Thoughts anyone?

[Mark Buckton]

just seen the whole show , it looks great, this is just what is needed to promote non ozumo

Ah, at last something to provoke some debate!! Be warned, I've woken up with a slightly argumentative streak today. Also, I'm basing this argument on the things I've seen in the photos of the event, the write-ups I've read and the tournament website, not from having seen it on ESPN or otherwise.

I have to disagree myself. I do not think the NY event promotes "amateur sumo" as a whole. Rather it promotes "non ozumo" as you suggest.

(remainder removed for the sake of space but agree completely here). NY was a gimmick. Amasumo would be FAR better advertised were CNN/ESPN/ITN et al at the Sakai event this (or next :-( year. Where da Romans go?

[_the_mind_]

i saw it last saturday as well, as already said, it is 2 parts, not showing the same thing twice. ....it was interesting to see the difference from this to ozuma(the lack of tachi-ai was what i noticed the most).

Edited December 30, 2005 by _the_mind_

[kenzo]

sasanishki, as always you have a good point.with respect to small guys stillyan - 85 kg( bulgaria) did his piece and upset some big guys foe example libor deszou ( hun) silver medal in osaka in the big boys division.obviously in a perfect world we all know what we would like to see but it also depends on personal tastes etc. you have to start somewhere. a i cannot remember that the last time a sumo tournament got so much world publicity............ its quite simple you like it or dont like it.i do not see ifs or the nsk pushing big tournaments and getting the same world coverage, or maybe they are and i buying the wrong newspaper and need to upgrade my sattelite channels.of course this is not in the true japanese style but its got the public interested and they are watching it on tv and the company are selling tickets.so some people do like it out there.looking forward to the incoming reply from you

[Sasanishiki]

Ah debate! Cut and thrust! The Amasumo sub-forum becoming a hotbed of discussion again. I love it!

OK, I agree that getting some attention for amasumo via TV is good. In fact it is necessary for the IFS to push their claim for full Olympic status. Of the reports on the current Olympic sports and the five prospective ones for 2012 (that were subsequently not chosen) part of the criteria was about press exposure and thus 'popularity' [found the report somewhere on the www.olympic.org site, but can't remember exactly where].

However, I feel this NY spectacle was only a half step and a poor one in many ways. They went big (apart from Stillyan who was there as the acrobatic, crowd pleasing underdog) and male and then tied a whole lot of pseudo-Oriental mumbo jumbo about the gods and spirits belonging to the different teams or groups that the athletes were in etc. What is up with that? It had nothing to do with ozumo, and therefore even less to do with amateur sumo! I don't think that a tournament like that needs to be "Japanese style", as many of us have issues with Japan's overbearing control of world tournaments anyway. Tacking on some crap to make it seem Japanese (when in fact it isn't remotely connected) is one of the poor decisions I feel.

I think it was great that they got some quality current athletes, although there were a few big ring-ins on the American side by the sounds of it. But we all know that this is only part of the story of amateur sumo and tends to feed into the stereotype of big guys in diapers (I will scratch out the eyes of the next journo who writes some crap about that). While this helps to promote the sport to a new audience, or one that only knows about ozumo, it also means that much work needs to be repeated to then help break the stereotype of big men only. So, amateur sumo, by this method of promotion would have to establish itself, and then re-establish itself by convincing the other body types (and women too) that there is a place in the sport for them. By just having big guys it makes amateur sumo just as much of a spectator only sport as ozumo is. The beauty of amateur sumo is that, because of the weight divisions, pretty much anyone can have a go. This is also important in the promotion of the sport because the more active athletes there are the more importance the sport has when pushing for full Olympic status. (Remember I said in my earlier post that I still have reservations about achieving this goal...)

OK, so I know it is hard to showcase the whole sport and make it entertaining for TV etc. However, I really wonder if the IFS has thought this through. They gave their blessing to Big Boy Productions to have this as a sanctioned event. Yes it increases the exposure to amateur sumo (though I have my reservations as to the efficacy). Yes, there is probably some money involved that helps the IFS (and Big Boy of course) but ultimately it doesn't serve their long term interests in my opinon. Much better to produce some sort of slick package of the world championships and then try to get that aired on Eurosport or ESPN, even if it is in the middle of the night (you know we'd all watch it!).

OK, enough of that...

[Petr]

Good stuff, Sasa. You've been studying.

Btw. the 'world publicity' stands for 'publicity in the US'? In Japan, only very few people seem to know about the event.

[_the_mind_]

(I will scratch out the eyes of the next journo who writes some crap about that)

sadly i had some idiots sit behind me in Vegas who called sumo the very same thing when a reporter asked our area why we were there to see sumo insted of some rock consert down the street. she yells out "we want to see fat men in diapers" i just sighed in disappointment. and we wonder why the media calls it that. the worst part of it was that through the matches she seemed to know who everyone was and apparently had even been to Japan to see a basho, she was clearly much more then a casual first time american observer. but to hear just ignorence spewed when the media asks what you like about it was annoying to say the lest. its no wonder the sport isnt taken seriously in the states when "fans" get a chance to say what they think about it, and thats the best answer they come up with. "we want to see fat men in diapers" what a way to make the american all of viewing audience sound like complete retards.

[the italian halibut]

they mentioned at the beginning of the first segment of the telecast that sumo was the world's fastest growing sport.

i find it interesting that one of the oldest of sports in the fastest growing

i do not know if that is true or not, but it may very well be.

another interesting thing to me (which i dared not mention on the olympic lifting board where i am a frequent poster) is that i believe a good case could be made for the sumo champion to be regarded as the world's strongest man

they frequently argue the olympic lifter vs the powerlifter, but sumo may well be a better test than both, and certainly fits more with what occurs in nature excluding our species

i was disppointed in the performances (very weak or non existent tachiai) at first, but they did pick up a bit as things progressed.

it was funny to watch the blond fin (i beleive) perform shiko as an attempted psych out move

one look at That must have given his opponent a huge boost in confidence (Help me...)

as a bit of an off topic aside, i do a fair amount of physical training and am pretty eclectic about it. former olympic champion and dear friend tommy kono frequently gives me written guidance. he very much approves of my inclusion of sumo related exercise. i personally find it helps me a lot. and tommy as i once before mentioned is a great sumo fan himself! (Cheers...)

[Guest sisusumo]

Holy Halibut.....A closet sumo lover from the Goheavy board! Thats' rich, I'm closet olympic weightlifter/fan with an overwhelming sumo tendencies, I have even posted a time or two on the goheavy board, but nobody over there wants to hear about the benefits of shikos as an assistance excercise for the low squat clean recovery. (or so I thought). In regards to the recent Event in New York, I have heard from first hand accounts it was considered a success financialy and otherwise, so much so that the buzz has it that they will take the "Show on the Road" (Europe to be more precise.)

You are certainly right in regards to the tachiai, some of the intial hits were comparable to feather pillows colliding and I only saw two effective tsupparis (open hand push\thurst technique). And while I'm at it what the hell was up with Stoyanov and his head pushing. The guy has been around sumo long enough that a little of the dignified stocism should have rubbed off on him.

Edited January 1, 2006 by Sasanishiki

[the italian halibut]

steve justa (aka the philosopher of strength) in his book "rock, iron, and steel" recommends several sumo exercises for the development of all around strength (In a state of confusion...)