Alan KARAEV. First Win.

[Ossetian Yokozuna]

Today.

D. O. G. III in Japan.

Alan KARAEV wins by TKO ( strikes ) at :27 of the first round over Tomohiko HASHIMOTO.

Edited September 17, 2005 by Ossetian Yokozuna

[Ossetian Yokozuna]

And Aslan DZEBOEV also win at the same D. O. G. III

Fight 1 -95kg

Aslan Dzeboev def. Mitsuyoshi Sato (Grabaka) by R1 0:13 KO

[Jakusotsu]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So I take it that it's ok to strike a man when he's down. Nice sport. (Eating...)

[Ossetian Yokozuna]

Jakusotsu - Rules are rules.

This situation occur offen in street fights.

These situations are real as life.

[Gernobono]

Jakusotsu - Rules are rules.

This situation occur offen in street fights.

These situations are real as life.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i agree with jakusotsu

what do streetfights have to do with some pseudosports?....you just said it....it's a streetfight ...no more.....

and thosee guys involved would be arrested if they did it on the streets rather than a cage in front of spectators

[Ossetian Yokozuna]

Gernobono - ok.

What is boxing or karate?

Everybody should be arrested if did it on the streets rather than in a ring in front of spectators.

[Sasanishiki]

I agree with OY on this one. Sumo, if it was done in the streets, would amount to assault.

[Jakusotsu]

I agree with OY on this one. Sumo, if it was done in the streets, would amount to assault.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, but that's not the point. Sports have rules, and if those rules sanction beating a downed man it's not a sport in my opinion, it's just savage.

[Mark Buckton]

OY - do you often post about sumo (in as far as it concerns only Ossetians of course) on the sites the various type of wrestling that interest you is discussed?

[Mark Buckton]

also - been thinking over the rules are rules concept and have this to say -

What is it that separates us from the animals???

The person in the black shorts may be hard pushed to answer that one.

(was it Gates / Branson who said something like - ""the only rules you should respect are the ones you can break"")

[Hashira]

i don't think there's anything wrong with the rules in these sports. in every fighting sport, a line is drawn somewhere in the rules about what is safe or not, these guys just choose to play the sport where that line is drawn further along.

[Avitohol]

too much attention on these fighters. it's dificult to call it a sport, looks much more like a farce to me. (Neener, neener...)

OY, here you are a person that you should really be proud of and that deserves much more to cheer on him. (Sign of approval) (Nodding yes...)

Setting a European record here - 237.5 in the c&j (Punk rocker...) >:-(

:-P ;-) B-)

[Manekineko]

Ah, Ustinov! (Neener, neener...) Shame on me, I keep forgetting his name, those Bulgarians all sound the same. (Nodding yes...)

I miss weight-lifting... My favorite sport to watch next to sumo. But, enough of OT! Karaev and Pride/K1/whatever his sport is are OK, weight-lifting boasts deserve a topic of their own if there is further interest. >:-(

[Avitohol]

Ah, Ustinov! ;-)  Shame on me, I keep forgetting his name, those Bulgarians all sound the same. :-P

I miss weight-lifting... My favorite sport to watch next to sumo. But, enough of OT! Karaev and Pride/K1/whatever his sport is are OK, weight-lifting boasts deserve a topic of their own if there is further interest. (Nodding yes...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alan Tsagaev actually. (Punk rocker...) An Ossetian who had been denied a place in Russian weightlifting squad and came to Bulgaria to be shaped in what is now - one of the best lifters in the world. >:-(

OK, no more off-topic. (Neener, neener...)

[Ossetian Yokozuna]

Avitohol - Thanks you remember Alan TSAGAEV.

As I know he is World Champion and Olimpic Silver prizer in weight 120 kg or +120 kg.

( You know may be that there is friendship beetwin Krjely Okrug of BULGARIA and OSSETIA. )

[Mark Buckton]

I find it interesting that 'rules are rules' when they suit OY but you happily ignore international rules of border and national recognition by pretending the Ossetians are a breed apart. They are not - they are Russian - and were it of significant importance I am sure Roho and Hakurozan would not be happy listing themselves as Russians day in day out. Would they?

Alan TSAGAEV is either Russian or Bulgarian (the latter I presume if he has opted to wear their flag in international competition) - to say he is Ossetian is like calling Kaio a Fukuokan and ignoring the bigger picture that he is Japanese first and foremost - Fukuokan later.

Edited September 20, 2005 by Adachinoryu

[Manekineko]

Adachi... are you English or British? And yet there is no such country as England. In 1980s I was Croatian in spite of there being no such country... So why shouldn't Roho&Hakurozan be both Ossetian (by nation) and Russian (by citizenship)? And Tsagaev can be Ossetian by nationality and Bulgarian by citizenship, I don't see anything strange there. If Ossetians themselves feel to be a breed apart, no international consensus will stop them. And if you are so irritated by Ossetian Yokozuna's pride in his nation/group, feel free to ignore his posts.

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but your either/or grated on a wrong nerve... >:-(

Edit: I didn't realise Tsagaev was Ossetian... live and learn.

Edited September 20, 2005 by Manekineko

[Mark Buckton]

Adachi... are you English or British? And yet there is no such country as England.

Edited September 20, 2005 by Adachinoryu

[Avitohol]

I find it interesting that 'rules are rules' when they suit OY but you happily ignore international rules of border and national recognition by pretending the Ossetians are a breed apart. They are not - they are Russian - and were it of significant importance I am sure Roho and Hakurozan would not be happy listing themselves as Russians day in day out. Would they?

Alan TSAGAEV is either Russian or Bulgarian (the latter I presume if he has opted to wear their flag in international competition) - to say he is Ossetian is like calling Kaio a Fukuokan and ignoring the bigger picture that he is Japanese first and foremost - Fukuokan later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

he's ethnic ossetian. fact is they're not Russians. Russia is an enormous country, a federation that has no less than 100 different ethnic minorities. not a big surprise considering the vast territories on which it is spread.

and Tsagaev is a citizen of Russia and Bulgaria. he lives here in Sofia, he speaks Bulgarian fluently and his intention is stay where he is. I consider him as a Bulgarian too, but that doesn't change the fact he's ethnic ossetian, as there are ethnic turks in Bulgaria or etnic armenians. >:-(

Edited September 20, 2005 by Avitohol

[Mark Buckton]

I find it interesting that 'rules are rules' when they suit OY but you happily ignore international rules of border and national recognition by pretending the Ossetians are a breed apart. They are not - they are Russian - and were it of significant importance I am sure Roho and Hakurozan would not be happy listing themselves as Russians day in day out. Would they?

Alan TSAGAEV is either Russian or Bulgarian (the latter I presume if he has opted to wear their flag in international competition) - to say he is Ossetian is like calling Kaio a Fukuokan and ignoring the bigger picture that he is Japanese first and foremost - Fukuokan later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

he's ethnic ossetian. fact is they're not Russians. Russia is an enormous country, a federation that has no less than 100 different ethnic minorities. not a big surprise considering the vast territories on which it is spread.

and Tsagaev is a citizen of Russia and Bulgaria. he lives here in Sofia, he speaks Bulgarian fluently and his intention is stay where he is. I consider him as Bulgarian too, but that doesn't change the fact he's ethnic ossetian, as there are ethnic turks in Bulgaria or etnic armenians. >:-(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

fair points but his passport is his nationality - international 'rules are rules' of course and a subject to which I have no answer. His passport that is. I do feel though, that by accepting the passport of a nation you accept being a native of that nation.

My son is of dual nationality English / Japanese and must accept due recognition of both and give that same recognition. Ethnicity can be respected within nationality on the global stage providing the acceptance and maturity to do so exists in a given nation - when it doesn't - things get bloody and bloody silly as recent European / Iraqi / Sudanese history demonstrates.

[Shibouyama]

I agree with Manekineko. Citizenship is an important classification, but which political administrative unit you belong to and who you're people are (ethnicity) often are different things. The Native Americans in my home state of Minnesota are Americans, but if you ask them whether they feel more American or more Anishinaabe, guess what the answer is likely to be. The purely ethnic connection is often much stronger and more personal. I believe that people have the right to determine their own group identity, regardless of who they are paying taxes to. IMHO >:-(

[Avitohol]

I find it interesting that 'rules are rules' when they suit OY but you happily ignore international rules of border and national recognition by pretending the Ossetians are a breed apart. They are not - they are Russian - and were it of significant importance I am sure Roho and Hakurozan would not be happy listing themselves as Russians day in day out. Would they?

Alan TSAGAEV is either Russian or Bulgarian (the latter I presume if he has opted to wear their flag in international competition) - to say he is Ossetian is like calling Kaio a Fukuokan and ignoring the bigger picture that he is Japanese first and foremost - Fukuokan later.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

he's ethnic ossetian. fact is they're not Russians. Russia is an enormous country, a federation that has no less than 100 different ethnic minorities. not a big surprise considering the vast territories on which it is spread.

and Tsagaev is a citizen of Russia and Bulgaria. he lives here in Sofia, he speaks Bulgarian fluently and his intention is stay where he is. I consider him as Bulgarian too, but that doesn't change the fact he's ethnic ossetian, as there are ethnic turks in Bulgaria or etnic armenians. :-P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

fair points but his passport is his nationality - international 'rules are rules' of course and a subject to which I have no answer. His passport that is. I do feel though, that by accepting the passport of a nation you accept being a native of that nation.

My son is of dual nationality English / Japanese and must accept due recognition of both and give that same recognition. Ethnicity can be respected within nationality on the global stage providing the acceptance and maturity to do so exists in a given nation - when it doesn't - things get bloody and bloody silly as recent European / Iraqi / Sudanese history demonstrates.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you should not always believe to what is written in the passport. B-)

according to modern passports macedonian nacionality exists (Punk rocker...) but according to history no such ethnicity ever existed (Nodding yes...) >:-(

i believe Makineko should be able to second that. ;-) or ... maybe not ... Tito and his comrades had their own view of history printed in those Yugo textbooks. (Neener, neener...) (Sign of disapproval)

[Avitohol]

but you happily ignore international rules of border and national recognition by pretending the Ossetians are a breed apart. They are not - they are Russian - and were it of significant importance I am sure Roho and Hakurozan would not be happy listing themselves as Russians day in day out. Would they?

I've known Hakurozan and Rohou for a long time in amateur competition and never considered them anything "apart" from Russian. Of course I knew they were from Northern Ossetia/Alania, but didn't seem particularly important. Only after a couple of posts here about Ossetians did I become curious whether the Ossetians, at least in their case, and other strong Amateur Sumou Rikishi from the region, are a breed apart.

So I asked a couple of them.

Hakurozan and Rohou just independently told me, basically: "We are all Russian, we're one nation, man" meaning them and me, because I'm of Russian origin... This was surprising to me, in a nice way, basically, not a Passport-wise definition, seems they mostly take themselves to be Russian in spirit, irregardless of whether one was born here or there.

Alan Karaev just looked at me in amazement and said basically: "What's the issue. I'm Russian, of course, that's my country. And ethnically I'm Ossetian, it's a region in Russia."

So this is from the horse's mouth, so to speak...

Oh, and I'm not Ossetian :-)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ok, they have the right to self-define themselves as whatever they want, in this particular case as Russians. though you know well, ossetians are not of slavic origin unlike russians. etnically those are two different peoples. fact.

there are armenians in Bulgaria that think of themselves as Bulgarians and other that keep to recognize themsleves as armenians. it's individual and depends on lots of things, mainly the media in which they were raised.

it influences a lot. to continue with the example from previous post - there are thousands (not to say millions) of ethnical Bulgarians in Macedonia that don't even know that they write and read in Bulgarian changed a little under a Serbian typewriting machine. they refuse to accept that - just because they were born and and raised at times when violence of the dictator caused their grandparents and parents to deny their ethnic origin. so now, this new generation in Macedonia is absolutely brainwashed. they are so confused to define where do they come from and where they belong to, that they steal both the history of greek people (in the case of their claim being descendants of Alexander The Great (Dribbling...) ) and also Bulgarian history (in case of king Samuel being a "macedonian"). It's absolutrely ridiculous and amusing. (Dribbling...)

But that's how a new "nacionality" is born. :-S

Edited September 20, 2005 by Avitohol

[Asashosakari]

ok, they have the right to self-define themselves as whatever they want, in this particular case as Russians.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the point is, as much as OY has been presenting these guys as "Ossetians first, Russians second" (or "Russians barely at all"), that isn't actually supported by the men themselves, so it all comes across a bit disingenuously by OY.

I'll refrain from commenting on whether the volume of posts is an annoyance or not, but ANR's question of whether OY posts as much about Roho and Hakurozan in other martial arts forums as he posts about Ossetian martial arts guys in this sumo forum is a valid one, IMHO. But then, I already accused one guy of being a mission poster last week, so I've probably exceeded my quota for the month.

[Taka]

Well historically North Ossetia is far closer to Russia/Moscov than its nearest neighbours are.

It's the only christian republic in the area and in 1944 Stalin deported, not the Ossetians, but the Chechens and Ingosetians to central asia. The Ossetians then spread to previously Ingosetian land and as late as 1992 there was a war over land between Ossetians and Ingosetians.

When Chechen terrorists (and I believe some were Ingosetian too) attacked the school in Beslan, their motive may very well have been to stir tensions and destabilize the region even further.