ShiroiKuma on an advertising poster...

[Odoriou]

When I entered my university today, I saw a big advertising poster on the entrance door. The photo shows Emanuel Jarbrough and someone who looks very much like ShiroiKuma:

The words mean "IS GROWTH THE SOLUTION? Take part in the German Students Award 2005".

(In a state of confusion...)

The poster advertises an award, where students and young researchers are invited to engage in an interdisciplinary exchange with each other and with scientists and other experts to write essays about their innovative ideas.

You can download the poster here: http://www.koerber-stiftung.de/wettbewerbe...plakat_2005.pdf (568 KB)

Or even here: http://www.koerber-stiftung.de/wettbewerbe...plakat_2005.jpg (2,95 MB !!!)

If it's really ShiroiKuma... I hope he gets at least some money for lending his bum to such a campaign. :-D

Edited September 13, 2005 by Odoriou

[ilovesumo]

Haha... got the same poster for at least 3 month. Never thought THAT could be Shiroikuma (Pulling hair...)

Edited September 13, 2005 by ilovesumo

[Odoriou]

Now you see how seldom I visit my university... I guess we've had it for three months, too. (I surrender...)

But I still think it's ShiroiKuma himself. (Pulling hair...)

[ilovesumo]

Only the "White Cloud" knows... (Pulling hair...)

My poster is A4. Like a handout.

Edited September 13, 2005 by ilovesumo

[Kintamayama]

Only the "White Cloud" knows... (Pulling hair...)

My poster is A4. Like a handout.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's the "White Tiger". Kuma is tiger, kumo is cloud. And we know what good morning in Hebrew is..

Edited September 13, 2005 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama]

Hey, Kinta I give you credit in one thread. Now, I have to take it away. (Pulling hair...)

"Kuma" is bear.  "Tora" is tiger. 

Tsukinowa Kuma - Japanese black bear w/ crescent on chest

Tsukinowa Kumanosuke - Japanese cub rikishi

Shiroikuma (White Bear) - "Sumodou" acolyte

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course it is. It is written in the Tora: In Hebrew, a bear is like a tiger. And vice versa.

We say" The tiger bears its teeth, but the bear cannot tiger its teeth. Windows remain intact in storms where lions eat hummus".

Also, long ago, sumo was done between tigers and bears, when everyone else was busy. The word "torikumi" of course derives from "torakuma" (tiger-bear).

Damn, what a Freudian slip..

I am totally ashamed ..

(see if anyone can count the bad puns..)

I am retreating in disgrace as fast as I can.

Edited September 13, 2005 by Kintamayama

[Jakusotsu]

Could be ShiroiKuma, true...

...but might as well be Eduard Grams, who is of very similar build:

[Kintamayama]

It looks like Drew Carey from a few years ago to me.

[Sasanishiki]

I can confirm that it is ShiroiKuma. I've had him show it to me, and the photo is quite old, possibly about 1997? SK will clear up the actual date (regardless of whether he is a cloud, a tiger or a bear).

I agree that he should ask for royalties. I guess this photo is the amateur sumo equivalent of that famous one of Konishiki looming over Mainoumi. Now, if you've ever seen how big ShiroiKuma is, and think how much bigger than Mainoumi he is, that gives you an idea on how large Manny Yarborough is!

[ilovesumo]

Hey, Kinta I give you credit in one thread. Now, I have to take it away. (West wins...)

"Kuma" is bear.  "Tora" is tiger. 

Tsukinowa Kuma - Japanese black bear w/ crescent on chest

Tsukinowa Kumanosuke - Japanese cub rikishi

Shiroikuma (White Bear) - "Sumodou" acolyte

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course it is. It is written in the Tora: In Hebrew, a bear is like a tiger. And vice versa.

We say" The tiger bears its teeth, but the bear cannot tiger its teeth. Windows remain intact in storms where lions eat hummus".

Also, long ago, sumo was done between tigers and bears, when everyone else was busy. The word "torikumi" of course derives from "torakuma" (tiger-bear).

Damn, what a Freudian slip..

I am totally ashamed ..

(see if anyone can count the bad puns..)

I am retreating in disgrace as fast as I can.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am a child- never stop learning (West wins...)

Confused by Kanji, but Romaji are worse (West wins...)

Thought the "kumo=cloud Kanji (I havn't learned until now)" could have a few different readings like all this confusing (East wins...) little signs.... (East wins...)

SORRY!!! (Welcome...)

but... clouds are white so I wasn't totally wrong (East wins...)

[Doyobi]

Hehe, when I saw the picture I thought about Nishinoshima :D The coulour of the mawashi must have tricked me.

[Sasanishiki]

Hehe, when I saw the picture I thought about Nishinoshima

yes people often think about me. i think i should be king of planet earth

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not enough tattoos for Nishinoshima!

[Mark Buckton]

who has several - on his FRONT IIRC from my last pillow talk sesh with him?!?!

[Odoriou]

If anyone knows about what the rules are with regard to using unknown athlete's images in ad campaigns etc. in the EU, please let me know, I'd appreciate it.

Meanwhile I've been asking some friends of mine (law students) about that matter. It really seems to be a difficult situation... nobody had a convincing solution for that. (Being ill...)

On one hand you have the right to decide, if other people may use your picture for their purposes or not. On the other hand this is not a "private" picture of you, but a photo taken in a public event. You obviously wanted the press to photograph you there. So you gave "some kind of" permission. The question is: what permission was it exacly?

For sure you gave permission to appear in press releases with your bum. (Going kyujo...) Of course, a commercial ad campaign is something very different. If McDonald's ("Eat at McDonald's to become a real big man!" :-P ) would put you on a poster without asking you, the case should be clear. But this special ad campaign was just for a public students award - so nothing "commercial". It's probably hard to distinguish between "press release" and "commercial ad campaign" in this special case.

If you've already been in a couple of ads before, you will know better than me what to do... I personally would simply contact the society that started the campaign. Tell them it's you on the picture and ask them cautiously if they possibly are willing to 'cooperate' with you financially. (First prize...)

Contact address: http://www.koerber-stiftung.de/wettbewerbe...takt/index.html

[Sasanishiki]

Further to the above post...

The actual ownership of this image belongs with the photographer IMO. Yes, you are party to that, but as Odoriu has said, it was taken at a public event. Participation in that public event probably came with tacit approval that there would be a media presence and that an athlete's image might be used in certain ways.

If this image has then since been used without permission, it would seem to me that the actual infringement goes first against the producer/copyright holder of the image. If they have infringed in this instance, it seems likely that they would not ask the permission of the subjects of the photo because they have not even asked teh producer of the photo. I'm making a few assumptions here, and I know that you're probably not too serious about this as it is not a commercial campaign, only a very localised event, but the subjects in this picture seem to be one step further along from the photographer in the pecking order.

[Mark Buckton]

Look into the Bern (I think it was) convention on copyright to see how cross border recognition works. No links I'm afraid but that name is the one you need.

[Mark Buckton]

in fact - a start but all legal speak at first glance (and Ber is with an 'e' it seems)

http://www.cric.or.jp/cric_e/ewch/ewch.html

[Odoriou]

Basically, here it boils down to the fact that they have to buy rights of "known" athletes.

I guess at least your mate Manny is definitely popular enough to be called a "known athlete". I mean he's been in lots of talk shows (Jay Leno etc.)... :-S

BTW: Why does this smiley (Dribbling...) remind me on the picture we are talking about? (Dribbling...)

Edited September 20, 2005 by Odoriou

[Anjoboshi]

Hm, as Odoriou said it seems to be a difficult situation. I'm not a lawyer and actually I don't live in germany (and therefore I'm not familiar with the laws ... ), but since it is an interesting topic I did some research on google.

I found two (websites (and there plenty more) which deal with the Kunsturhebergesetz and explain it, which seems to be appropriate for this situation. Both are in german (sorry).

[1] http://www.sakowski.de/skripte/eig_bild.html

and

[2] http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~uzadow/recht/raebild.html

(and also Wikipedia: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recht_am_eigenen_Bild )

Since it was a public event the part with "Person bei Veranstaltung" or "(Relative) Person der Zeitgeschichte" might suit. Although following the explanation in [2] at point 6 and 7.2 it doesn't exactly fit at all - for example there is no crowd at the picture (point 6) and the topicality (Ereignisbezug und Aktualit

[ilovesumo]

I am in contact with them now, PATIENCE!

After an awful weekend, please give me time to handle my 478 E-Mails :-O

[_the_mind_]

slightly off topic but ShiroiKuma, how much did you weigh in the picture, and how much do you weigh now? Your avatar suggests you are probably larger now then you were in that picture with Manny.

as a side note i find it funny someone noticed your backside well enough to know it was you. (You are going off-topic...)

Edited September 23, 2005 by _the_mind_

[ilovesumo]

I am waiting for their second e-mail, will tell you about it then.

[_the_mind_]

Wow, you're really observant... I was 105kg then. Now: 150kg.

very noticable difference i think

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i agree, i didnt feel it was my overly powerful ability of observation, but more of "hey in the picture the guy looks slim, in the avatar the same guy looks kind of heavy" 150kg is fairly large. however if Shiroikuma would like to think im observent, i will accept said compliment (Yusho winner...) :-S

Edited September 26, 2005 by _the_mind_