70 OFFICIAL MOVES

[Jakusotsu]

It is not really useful to compare rikishi with varying numbers of wins because the factor tends to decrease with the number of wins.

[...]

Maybe on of the statistically better educated members can work out a factor that really displays the worth of the different Kimarite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. The longer a rikishi competes the less likely it becomes for him to win with a kimarite he hadn't used before. Maybe the picture gets clearer if we count just the number of wins he needed to fill up his whole repertoire (i.e. disregard all subsequent wins coming after his latest addition), but that task would require much brainsweat.

[Doitsuyama]

Maybe on of the statistically better educated members can work out a factor that really displays the worth of the different Kimarite.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought a bit about it, and I think I got a good solution for the problem of the different number of bouts (or rather wins). The answer is to calculate the expected number of kimarite a rikishi would apply in 50 wins. (The number of 50 is arbitrary of course, but I guess different numbers wouldn't affect the result too much.)

The calculation needs the distribution of kimarite (like I gave them for Chiyonofuji and Kagaya above), then the probability for each kimarite to happen in 50 wins can be calculated as:

p = 1-BINOMDIST(0,50,k/w,false)

where k is the number of wins for a kimarite (43 for Chiyonofuji's shitatenage), w the total number of wins (810 for Chiyonofuji) and the Excel function BINOMDIST calculates the probabilty of not getting a win in 50 bouts with that kimarite. Finally subtract that from 1 to get the reverse probability to get at least a win. Sum that up for all kimarite and we have a kimarite versatility rating for the rikishi.

This rating not only standardizes the number of bouts, it also solves the problem of rikishi with generally having many different kimarite, but a lot applied of them only 1 or 2 times. We get a real versatility.

For Chiyonofuji this rating results in 13.0 different kimarite in 50 bouts, for Kagaya this results in 16.0 different kimarite.

[Doitsuyama]

Ok, I have done the work to calculate those fun KVR ratings for all rikishi who had their Makuuchi debut in 1989 or later and had at least 200 wins in Makuuchi. I also excluded fusen and included playoffs, but I included hansoku and isamiashi as well. Fusen really doesn't take any action from the winner, but without some actions there wouldn't have been a hansoku or an isamiashi or another of the losing techniques like tsukite or tsukihiza. So I decided to let them stay in. At least the bout happened. Well, here is the table, sorted by the kimarite versatility index as described above (I have added the Herfindahl index as another measure as suggested from Asashosakari):

Rikishi	Wins	Kimarite	KV50 Rating	Herfindahl
Kyokushuzan	359	44	19.9	754
Aminishiki	205	30	17.6	864
Asashoryu	324	34	17.5	1007
Kaiho	292	32	17.4	801
Kyokudozan	321	30	17.0	1061
Mainoumi	250	32	15.7	1230
Kotomitsuki	244	27	15.3	1688
Takanonami	643	30	15.2	1623
Higonoumi	337	26	15.0	1062
Minatofuji	303	24	14.8	1245
Wakanohana	485	31	14.8	1382
Kotoryu	326	26	14.8	1412
Oginishiki	306	28	14.2	2101
Kitakachidoki	336	23	13.9	1583
Kaio	591	30	13.9	1641
Tokitsuumi	272	22	13.5	1949
Kotonishiki	470	27	13.5	1433
Takanowaka	218	19	13.1	1450
Kotonowaka	585	27	12.9	2187
Tochinonada	342	22	12.6	1786
Tochiazuma	397	23	12.6	1770
Tamanoshima	206	20	12.5	1756
Wakanosato	327	21	12.3	2013
Kyokutenho	300	28	12.3	2710
Miyabiyama	288	20	12.0	1638
Musoyama	493	21	11.9	2198
Daishoho	220	19	11.9	1515
Takatoriki	498	25	11.7	2145
Tosanoumi	447	20	11.7	1701
Hamanoshima	294	20	11.6	3051
Kushimaumi	252	20	11.4	1790
Takanohana	658	28	11.4	3080
Daizen	245	18	11.4	2034
Musashimaru	707	24	11.3	2145
Chiyotaikai	401	19	10.8	1949
Kasugafuji	292	20	10.8	1599
Toki	254	16	10.3	1647
Tamakasuga	346	16	9.9	2205
Wakanoyama	215	15	9.9	2768
Akebono	490	17	9.9	1810
Asanosho	213	15	9.5	1715
Aogiyama	246	14	9.5	2289
Asanowaka	356	17	9.0	2040
Dejima	385	19	8.6	2977

As Chiyozakura's study already indicated, Dejima is dead last with Asanowaka not much better. Kyokushuzan is the clear winner with Aminishiki, Asashoryu and Kaiho tricking for the second place. A bit surprisingly Mainoumi is only in 6th place.

Edited August 3, 2005 by Doitsuyama

[Asashosakari]

I suspect the numbers wouldn't be very different from Doitsuyama's above, but perhaps "kimarite versatility" could also be measured through a sort of Herfindahl Index? After all, even if a rikishi is expected to have, say, 15 different kimarite in 50 wins, we still don't know whether that consists of an altogether varied offense, or one that's dominated by a few techniques and just shows variety in the lesser-used techniques.

Edited August 3, 2005 by Asashosakari

[Doitsuyama]

I suspect the numbers wouldn't be very different from Doitsuyama's above, but perhaps "kimarite versatility" could also be measured through a sort of Herfindahl Index? After all, even if a rikishi is expected to have, say, 15 different kimarite in 50 wins, we still don't know whether that consists of an altogether varied offense, or one that's dominated by a few techniques and just shows variety in the lesser-used techniques.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have added the Herfindahl index in the above table, and the results are a bit different. Now Hamanoshima and Takanohana are even behind Dejima. I don't like the Herfindahl index for the aim of kimarite versatility because it is a VERY simple and schematic measure of concentration and really is only suitable to measure if a rikishi is concentrating his wins on very few kimarite like Takanohana does with over 50 % yorikiri wins. So it is rather a measure of kimarite concentration and not kimarite versatility.

[Asashosakari]

Thank you, that was quick. (You are going off-topic...)

I mostly thought of the Herfindahl index in order to account for guys like Kyokutenho, whose kimarite are very predictable since he has a couple of big favorites, but who shows versatility when he doesn't win with one of his favorites. Compare that to Miyabiyama who has a lot fewer total winning techniques but seems to use them in a more varied way. So maybe it's more a "kimarite surprise" value since it gets larger the more predictable somebody's wins are. At any rate, it's probably just good for qualitative comparisons, and not so much quantitative ones.

Also, looking at the results, it seems that slapdown artists get an artificial boost...Tosanoumi, Miya and Toki all have surprisingly low HI values. I suspect that's because a yorikiri is almost always a yorikiri (if that makes any sense), but slapdowns get distributed across hatakikomi, hikiotoshi and tsukiotoshi...

Edited August 3, 2005 by Asashosakari

[Jakusotsu]

(Dribbling...) Takanonami, Higonoumi and Minatofuji in the top ten? Wow! I don't recall those guys as being overly creative on the dohyo, but facts are facts, aren't they? (You are going off-topic...)

[Doitsuyama]

(Eating...) Takanonami, Higonoumi and Minatofuji in the top ten? Wow! I don't recall those guys as being overly creative on the dohyo, but facts are facts, aren't they? (You are going off-topic...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Facts are facts and Takanonami is Takanonami. (Dribbling...)

Takanonami does have several kimarite which he uses clearly more than the average rikishi like kawazugake (6, the other rikishi together have 2), kotenage (65, compared to Kaio's 33), kimedashi (36), kimetaoshi (4), katasukashi (13), sotogake (17), tsuridashi (19). He is leading the rikishi in this survey in six of those six kimarite, most of them by a wide margin, katasukashi is the exception where Wakanohana is leading with 17. I would describe this extensive kimarite leadership as versatility, yes, and those seven kimarite alone boost his kimarite rating by 4.7 points.

Edited August 3, 2005 by Doitsuyama

[Oimeru]

*Very* interesting analysis!

That kind of thing is what I had in mind myself, but it looks a bit less necessary now. (You are going off-topic...)

[Oimeru]

Just for fun I just calculated Konishiki's post-1989-KV50 by hand. He ends up around 8 - late in his career there was more variability. He even won with nage techniques a handful of times! ;-)

[Chiyozakura]

I would have expected Takanonami up there because he did not have that kind of go-to-technique that Takanohana had with his yorikiri. Even in his best days Nami often won moving backwards so his kimarite had to be more diversified.

But on the other hand Minatofuji and Higonoumi surprise me a lot.

At the bottom there are mainly tsuki/oshi rikishi, which can be expected as there are less ways win pushing and thrusting then there are on the mawashi. The highest rikishi that I would consider a tsuki/oshi rikishi is Miyabiyama, who admittetdly has way better yotsu skills than, for example, Chiyotaikai. Asanowaka on the other hand probably would be do even worse if there was not the for my taste useless distinction of hikiotoshi and tsukiotoshi ( I never understand which kimarite it was when it is called out ).

[Kaiomitsuki]

Is it possible to have the number of Kimarite for Hayateumi in his career ?

[Doitsuyama]

Is it possible to have the number of Kimarite for Hayateumi in his career ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hayateumi had 23 different kimarite in his 132 Makuuchi wins. My kimarite rating is 13.6 which puts him between Kaio and Tokitsuumi in the table.

[Kaiomitsuki]

Hayateumi had 23 different kimarite in his 132 Makuuchi wins. My kimarite rating is 13.6 which puts him between Kaio and Tokitsuumi in the table.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you ;-)

[Guest kimarite]

@doitsuyama

great work, your own v-rating is high, too

what are the verstility-ratings of those cyber-rikishi ?

Rikishi A 87 wins 87 kimarite

B 87 1

C 870 87 (10 each)

D 200 20 ( 1 kim 50%, 1 kim 14%, 18 kim 2%)

E 400 20 (same)

F 200 20 (5% each)

G 400 20 (5% each)

H 400 40 (2,5% each)

Thanks

Kimarite

[Asashosakari]

In the interest of saving Doitsuyama some work:

A 38.2

B 1.0

C 38.2

D 13.4

E 13.4

F 18.5

G 18.5

H 28.7

[Mark Buckton]

..................... just wondering.

Which wrestler is credited with having used the most moves out of the official 70??

;-)

Anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

there are 82 I believe

[Guest kambo]

..................... just wondering.

Which wrestler is credited with having used the most moves out of the official 70??

;-)

Anyone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

there are 82 I believe

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought the number was officially set at 70, mind you i think that was back in 1960..

:-)

[Otokonoyama]

Indeed, ANR is correct...82 at last count.

Online Sumo Techniques.

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

Asanowaka on the other hand probably would be do even worse if there was not the for my taste useless distinction of hikiotoshi and tsukiotoshi ( I never understand which kimarite it was when it is called out ).

The difference is quite clear in some cases. Basically there has to be a distinction between pulling and slamming aside move. In practise many tsukiotoshi are "weak" moves meaning they are for example henka-kimarite because in those cases there may not be a slapdown at all nor a pull but simply a "guiding" contact with the side of the blundering rikishi. The more interesting aspect is that tsukiotoshi can also be a power move with real aggressive and offensive slamming movement. Good example of such tsukiotoshi KaioU's against Dejima back in Nagoya 2000. There is no other kimarite that goes with such a slam except tsukiotoshi.

http://www.banzuke.com/~movies/nagoya2000/.../dejima_kaio.rm

Another good example is Musoyama's win against Tochinonada 1.5 years ago:

http://www.banzuke.com/~movies/haru2004/da...hinada_musoy.rm

Massive slamming move but not clamping the arm so there is no kotenage there nor there is any grip on the mawashi.

Good example of less spectacular tsukiotoshi:

http://www.banzuke.com/~movies/nagoya2004/...musoy_tamano.rm

There Musoyama again is the winner. It is quite close to sukuinage but there is no throwing move whatsoever and it is almost 100% "slam" to the side from the side. Hence the tsukiotoshi.

Hikiotoshi is by definition a pull and there is no element of slamming to the side. Some hikiotoshi are earthshaking and incredibly powerful but the foe is being pulled (or slammed) forward and not slammed from the side to the side.

All in all without tsukiotoshi, there would be many bouts where the winning technique would be impossible to determine. One could try to define them as kotenage, sukuinage, hatakikomi or hikiotoshi but the technique wouldn't be really any of those but tsukiotoshi (Showing respect...)