Asashouryuu Nagoya keiko

[Kintamayama]

No one came again yesterday to Takasago, so Asa made do with Asasekiryuu, Touki and Senshuuyama, 18 bouts. He was oshitaoshied by Asasekiryuu, and was seen with a cold compress on his right arm after keiko. "I'm in good shape, as usual. Hospital? You gotta be kidding..", he said. He is expecting Kotomitsuki to come for keiko today.

Edited July 4, 2005 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama]

And Kotomitsuki came. "Although it's raining today, my heart is filled with sunshine. I am SOOOO happy he came!!", said a happy Asa, who has had no visitors coming for keiko from fear of getting overwhelmed. They had 8 matches-Kotomitsuki won one by yorikiri.

"Man, he's strong. As hard as I try to push him, I just can't follow through", said an exhausted Kotomitsuki.

Edited July 4, 2005 by Kintamayama

[_the_mind_]

interesting that no one wants to spar with Asa....i would think a true student of the sport would jump at the chance to learn his competetor. i know i would. kudos to Kotomitsuki for doing it. in order to know how to beat someone you must know how to fight them. practice against that person is how you learn how to fight them. at least i would think so

all you guys out there who actually do sumo, tell me what you think. wouldnt you agree that familiarity is the best way to learn how to beat someone?

i do understand that your added training time with him will also allow him to know your way of fighting as well, but to just ignore him and hope you get lucky during the basho doesnt seem too wise.

[_the_mind_]

ok so why does Asa have such a hard time getting guys to practice with him whom arent in his heya? are they afraid to get roughed up by him? i figure its better to take those licks when no one is looking in practice then to do it at the basho. all the while learning him. ...good explination Nish.

[Zentoryu]

ok so why does Asa have such a hard time getting guys to practice with him whom arent in his heya? are they afraid to get roughed up by him?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to rehash an old discussion but thats the most likely reason. Asa unfortunately injured a couple of opponents in practice a while back (most notably Takamisakari). Right or wrong, the other sekitori have been avoiding practicing with him pretty much ever since.

Edited July 5, 2005 by Zentoryu

[Doitsuyama]

all you guys out there who actually do sumo, tell me what you think. wouldnt you agree that familiarity is the best way to learn how to beat someone?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Familiarity has two sides. The more intelligent rikishi of the two in the practice will gain more insight. This seems to be Asashoryu so far, so I can't see this exactly as a reason to spar with him.

[Kintamayama]

Today, it was Rohou's turn to come. He had 4 bouts with Asa and lost them all. "He sure is strong..", is all he said. He intends to return tomorrow for some more. "This is keiko, so one should just do it without counting wins and losses ", added ex-Taihou Oyakata, who came along with him. "Everyone is in high spirits, and the quality of keiko is great!!", said Asashouryuu, who had 15 bouts in all.

It seems that Kotooushuu was there with Kotomitsuki yesterday, in case anyone is keeping count..

[Gusoyama]

I personally have been wondering why Hakuho has not been coming at all to do keiko with Asa, especially after the many practice sessions they had together before Hakuho reached sanyaku. Maybe its that familiarity thing.

[Hashira]

while personally I think every rikishi should be fighting to get a chance to practice with asa, i think the risk of injury scares them. while doing keiko with asa might improve your chances of beating him (from 1% to 2%?), an injury could lead to a 0-15, or similar thing.

[_the_mind_]

Familiarity has two sides. The more intelligent rikishi of the two in the practice will gain more insight. This seems to be Asashoryu so far, so I can't see this exactly as a reason to spar with him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

right, and i agree as you practice with someone and you try to learn them, they will try to learn you. however, i would rather put the practice in on him to at least try to assess a weakness somewhere in Asa insted of just ignoreing him and hope for a lucky victory during the basho. Asa doesnt give out those very often. it seems the people who practice against him most often are the ones who actually have a chance. as such, there must be something to be exploited out of the situation. Roho keeps going back to Asa for more. i think he is doing what im trying to say. you just have to be willing to get roughed up in the process. i dont figure sumo to be a girly sport in the amount of physicality and injuries involved, so all the rikishi have probably been there and done that, as far as getting roughed up in practice goes.

Edited July 5, 2005 by _the_mind_

[_the_mind_]

while personally I think every rikishi should be fighting to get a chance to practice with asa, i think the risk of injury scares them. while doing keiko with asa might improve your chances of beating him (from 1% to 2%?), an injury could lead to a 0-15, or similar thing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

how many people has Asa put out of a basho during keiko?

[Jonosuke]

I personally have been wondering why Hakuho has not been coming at all to do keiko with Asa

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually Degeiko away from Tokyo has a lot to do with how close you are from each other. Even though the basho is in Nagoya, may heyas locate their camp outside the city based on economics, oyakata's preference and supporters generosity so simply put geographically sometimes it does not make sense to travel so much (remember even Nagoya traffic can be heavily congested.

It could be pretty much wasted efforts when you get to another heya and find out their sekitoris are missing as they may have to go out to see their supporters or others. They only visit the place only once a year so they all have a lot of these extra business to attend to as well as doing some charity work.

[Ryukaze]

As a former competator yeah I would definately feel more comfortable having practiced with an opponent before facing him, while likewise they may be familiar with you its the peace of mind you have by at least knowing to some degree what to expect rather than taking a total stab in the dark if nothing else.

As for "keiko" with the Yokozuna the bottom line seems to be everyone is scared (be it of injury or pride). "To be the best you have to beat the best" and so far no one has even shown the willingness to step up and practice with the man on a an even semi-consistent basis. If I were an active rikishi I would take every chance I could at practicing with the the "Big Man" and take any loss or humiliation personally, and as fuel for the motivation to improve and beat his face in the next time! -

Edited July 5, 2005 by Ryukaze

[genghis]

If I were an active rikishi I would take every chance I could at practicing with the the "Big Man" and take any loss or humiliation personally, and as fuel for the motivation to improve and beat his face in the next time! -

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As in any other wrestling or sport, high ranking competitors usually don't practice together. Imagine Mike Tyson practicing with his competitor before the match. Or, Brazilian soccer team is practicing with Germany before the final. It makes sense for Tochiazuma, Kaio, Chiotaikai and may be even Hakuho, to keep their preparations private. As far as I know, high ranking wrestlers in Mongolian sumo prepare and perfect their surprise attacks throughout a year and unleash it when they meet. Nowadays, a video recording makes this strategy even useful. I think the high ranking wrestlers, who respect themselves as potential competitors to Asa, are not doing de-keiko with him not because they are afraid. Rather, they are not the ones in need to learn.

[Kintamayama]

It seems that Kotooushuu was there with Kotomitsuki yesterday, in case anyone is keeping count..

and shogiku too from what i can see in the photo. mickey brought the gang with with him

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, actually Kotomitsuki and Kotoshougiku came again today (the 5th) joining Rohou, a fact I missed in my earlier post. Asa had 15 bouts with them, 4 with Rohou as stated in the former post.

[genghis]

totally different situation. this is one of the things that makes sumo more than a sport. wrestlers DO practice with each other. while tactics are involved there is no "secret surprise attack" you train openly with your opponent to try and improve your own abilities not to just learn his weak points. the motivation is self improvement.

also with the fraternal nature of sumo a big motivation is helping others improve. when one wrestler is thrashing another in practice he is often telling his opponent the mistakes  he is making. why would he do this if all he wanted was to keep an advantage over the other guy.

相撲だよ

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it is not happening for whatever the reason. Imagine, Kaio or Tochiazuma is afraid to practice with Asa? Or Asa is telling Tochiazuma's or Kaio's mistakes during the de-keiko? If they happen to do keiko before basho, it will be very formal thing, I guess.

Joint training is quite common in amatuer sports, including sumo. Mongolian amatuer sumo wrestlers usually go to Japan before every major tournament. But it is different for professionals. Neither Hakuho, nor Asashoryu now seem to be comfortable with the idea of training together. It just doesn't make sense. This is because they are now principal rivals. They will at least try to keep their pride by avoiding the potential lecturing from each other during the de-keiko.

[_the_mind_]

I personally have been wondering why Hakuho has not been coming at all to do keiko with Asa

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually Degeiko away from Tokyo has a lot to do with how close you are from each other. Even though the basho is in Nagoya, may heyas locate their camp outside the city based on economics, oyakata's preference and supporters generosity so simply put geographically sometimes it does not make sense to travel so much (remember even Nagoya traffic can be heavily congested.

It could be pretty much wasted efforts when you get to another heya and find out their sekitoris are missing as they may have to go out to see their supporters or others. They only visit the place only once a year so they all have a lot of these extra business to attend to as well as doing some charity work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what about the keiko amongst people in the same Ichimon?

Edited July 6, 2005 by _the_mind_

[_the_mind_]

Well, it is not happening for whatever the reason. Imagine, Kaio or Tochiazuma is afraid to practice with Asa? Or Asa is telling Tochiazuma's or Kaio's mistakes during the de-keiko? If they happen to do keiko before basho, it will be very formal thing, I guess.

Joint training is quite common in amatuer sports, including sumo. Mongolian amatuer sumo wrestlers usually go to Japan before every major tournament. But it is different  for professionals. Neither Hakuho, nor Asashoryu now seem to be comfortable with the idea of training together. It just doesn't make sense. This is because they are now principal rivals. They will at least try to keep their pride by avoiding the potential lecturing from each other during the de-keiko.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that sounds more like pride and less about bettering one's sumo, in my oppinion. if someone is able to get past that (like kotomitsuki did) then its obvious Asa is more then willing.

[slt]

Beating Asashoryu should not be the only reason to spar against him. As with any other sport, sparring against someone stronger is fundamental to improve. Even if the "edge" against Asashoryu doesn't change, as he also learns to fight his keiko partner better, fighting against him is also useful simply to grow stronger, and improve one's technique.

This should make his keiko partners stronger against other rikishi, as well.

[Asashosakari]

what about the keiko amongst people in the same Ichimon?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unlike in Tokyo, I suspect you just can't be as picky in Nagoya if you want to get some quality training time, for the reasons Jonosuke mentioned, so the decision whether to go for intra- or cross-ichimon degeiko probably matters less than it normally does.

For example, note that Kaio and Hakuho (both Tatsunami-Isegahama) went to Musashigawa-beya (Dewanoumi-ichimon) as per reports, while Azumazeki-beya (Takasago-ichimon) went to Kasugayama-beya's camp (Tatsunami-Isegahama).

Edited July 6, 2005 by Asashosakari

[Kintamayama]

Again, no one arrived today, so Asa had 23 bouts with Touki.. Guess how many he won. He was in a good mood though, and cracked up all the spectators when he did a mean impression of former heya mate and retired Asanowaka's "frog shikiri". After keiko, he was reading the sports papers and complaining that Sumo was hardly mentioned 4 days before shonichi. The only Sumo-related stuff mentioned was the Waka-Taka strife, of course.

[Otokonoyama]

... After keiko, he was reading the sports papers and complaining that Sumo was hardly mentioned 4 days before shonichi. The only Sumo-related stuff mentioned was the Waka-Taka strife, of course.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If he's reading the local Chunichi Shimbun, the evening edition usually has more sumo news than the morning edition.