Carry On or Quit

[Kasugaran]

It pains me to watch my man Kasugaoo lose everyday. It is obvious that he is struggling with his injury and may struggle to win a match. As far as demotion is concerned is it better to stay in the Basho and go 0-15 than to Kyujo now? Is he destined for Juryo no matter what? I would appreciate someone with more understanding of this to give me their opinion.

Thanks,

[Ryukaze]

I thought the current rules stated you get one "kyujo" which equivilates to a 7-8 record. After that however its 0-15 for any more complete absences. Then again im no rules expert so if I am wrong im more than sure someone will be gracious enough to point it out ;-)

nonetheless assuming this is the case I would think it wisest of Kasugao to simply pull out of this basho(his leg is obviously hampering his sumo) and come again at full strength next basho without quite as much worry of a drop in rank. While im no fan of his I hope your man gets better! - Ryu

[Jejima]

A 0-0-15, or 0-15, or even a 0-4-11 or whatever record all supposedly count the same. It is the wins that count, not the losses.

But if Kasugao does manage to get a win or two, then he'll cushion his fall a bit, and *may* impress upon the banzuke makers as to his fighting spirit, and so get the benefit of the doubt for a slightly higher position.

I think Ryukaze is thinking of the old rules, where if a rikishi had a public injury (occurring during a honbasho), they cuold get kopsho status for one basho, in which they kept their rank.

This rule no longer exists.

[Zentoryu]

It pains me to watch my man Kasugaoo lose everyday. It is obvious that he is struggling with his injury and may struggle to win a match. As far as demotion is concerned is it better to stay in the Basho and go 0-15 than to Kyujo now? Is he destined for Juryo no matter what? I would appreciate someone with more understanding of this to give me their opinion.

Thanks,

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If he withdraws now without having won a match, it will be the same as if he went 0-15. All the bouts he misses with count as losses against his record as far as his demotion on the next banzuke is concerned. So withdrawing now or staying and going 0-15 will make no difference as to where he ends up on the next banzuke.

The only advantage in withdrawing would be to give himself more time to heal whatever injury he has. The only advantage in staying in would be that he might be able to win a match or two and lessen his fall down the banzuke. Of course he risks further injury if he stays.

I thought the current rules stated you get one "kyujo" which equivilates to a 7-8 record.

Not quite...

There was once a "kosho" rule that allowed an injured rikishi to miss a basho without losing his rank, but that was abolished at the begining of 2004. Now if they miss a tournament, they are treated the same as someone who went 0-15.

Edited March 18, 2005 by Zentoryu

[Kasugaran]

Thanks guys, he almost had a win last night, so hoping for better today. It must count for something fighting on with such a painful injury, even Kaio didn't bother! Do you think he will be going to Juryo then or is M11 high enough to avoid it?

[Zentoryu]

Thanks guys, he almost had a win last night, so hoping for better today. It must count for something fighting on with such a painful injury, even Kaio didn't bother! Do you think he will be going to Juryo then or is M11 high enough to avoid it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He will probably have to win at least 4 or 5 bouts to stay in Makuuchi. Three wins may not be enough.

[Asashosakari]

I'd just like to add that it's been my impression that a full kyujo (0-0-15) gets treated a bit more harshly than any zero-win record achieved through actual dohyo appearances. (In the lower divisions this is actually standardized, e.g. a 0-0-7 in Sandanme means a 60 rank drop, while, say, a 0-2-5 means a drop of only 50 ranks.)

Of course, Kasugao has fought already, so if one really assumes he won't win any bouts this basho (which I'd doubt will happen), he should just cut his losses and go kyujo. Shouldn't matter if his final record is 0-15 or 0-6-9.

Edit: BTW, the "first kyujo = 7-8 record" rule Ryukaze mentioned sounds like what's in place in the Seki-* games. :-P

Edited March 18, 2005 by Asashosakari

[Odoriou]

As far as demotion is concerned is it better to stay in the Basho and go 0-15 than to Kyujo now? Is he destined for Juryo no matter what?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In last Basho Takekaze (M 8 w), Tochisakae (M 15 e) and Harunoyama (M 15 w) had a record of 0-15.

Takekaze dropped to Juryo 3 e, Tochisakae and Harunoyama fell to Juryo 10 (e/w).

So Kasugao will fall from Maegashira 11 e to roundabout Juryo 6 if he finishes with 0-15. :-P

[Xris]

There is one reason for staying in if he does not agravate his injury, it's that in the second week he will face oponents with the worse records (it's the habits of the match makers) and so he may manage a few wins, which is always better than 0-15.

[Ryukaze]

o.k. yeah my bad the old "kosho" rule has indeed been done away with so....He may as well fight on unless he riskis further injury or damage to his leg, gotta give your boy his props tho, I feel your pain brother.