A mere 308 lbs.

[Otokonoyama]

He's Put Tradition on Its Ear

*Sumo wrestler Asashoryu isn't so big; he's not even Japanese. But in an ancient sport with a modern crisis, he's lord of the dohyo.

By Bruce Wallace, Times Staff Writer

TOKYO

Edited February 18, 2005 by Otokonoyama

[Mitsukatsu]

As written in the Los Angeles Times article, "stable masters... sent scouts across Asia and Europe in search of new talent."

That's interesting, I've never heard of it before.

Edited February 18, 2005 by Mitsukatsu

[Coo-cook]

At a recent practice session, Asashoryu took it upon himself to punish another wrestler whose work ethic was deemed to have faltered. As the wrestler with layers of fat strained against another in the ring, Asashoryu delivered a series of savage two-handed whacks to the back of his thighs, first with a bamboo pole, then with a metal shovel.

The rikishi screamed and collapsed in agony with almost every blow, while the other wrestlers taunted him to get back up and fight. (Who's going to dare tell the yokozuna to put down the shovel?) When the victim retreated to a corner of the stable, Asashoryu cracked him over the head with the bamboo pole. Six times.

Wow,...That's very brutal. Only a Mongolian can be that brutal, right ?

The whole image fits perfectly to the perceptions the world has about us.

Brutal, killing ,lawless. wild and hard punching Mongolians. I hate that image.

[Yubiquitoyama]

reconsider that  :-O - one at least has told me himself of his recruitment in this manner.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who?

Edited February 18, 2005 by Yubiquitoyama

[Yubiquitoyama]

I have spoken to him personally and at length on a wide variety of subjects - sumo and personal, problems and pleasures.  I have no reason to believe he is not telling the truth and he names names in describing his recruitment.  Yours wasn't one of them although I am sure you played a role. :-O

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who?

Edited February 18, 2005 by Yubiquitoyama

[Yubiquitoyama]

If I included his name here I would, in effect, be divulging that which he told me privately.  Were I speaking to him for a magazine article etc I wouldn't have a problem but I have no intention of giving up info obtained in private conversations

- no-one else would like their private comments to one person published on the internet for the world to see.  Would you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is hardly a sensitive issue, but I suppose it's up to you. It does make it a bit difficult to believe you though.

[Yubiquitoyama]

no worries - people I have never met not believing is not really an issue for me.

On the other hand, you don't ask Shiroikuma to list the contacts and people involved in other rikishi's recruitment.

Edited February 18, 2005 by Yubiquitoyama

[Yubiquitoyama]

This guy was in contact with the (a) Japanese very early - long before sumo was an option. A good many years back.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok. That sounds much more plausible, but it doesn't really sound like a scout being in Europe to find potential rikishi, which was the issue, if the contact was long before sumo was an option.

[Yubiquitoyama]

actually - one thing I know he wanted to stress to others so I will do so here is that he ISN'T the first to enter professional sumo from his own country although almost eveyone believes he is.

There was another before him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If he actually wanted you to stress this to others, I think you almost have to say which country he came from or the information doesn't actually tell us anything.

[Yubiquitoyama]

good point but that gives up the privacy concept in other areas mentioned above so my mistake in linking these.

Edited February 18, 2005 by Yubiquitoyama

[Yangnomazuma]

good point but that gives up the privacy concept in other areas mentioned above so my mistake in linking these.

[Kintamayama]

Masutouou is "very active"?

[Yangnomazuma]

Masutouou is "very active"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

very true of course - although not so much so recently IAFAICS. :-O

Yang thingy - For someone who doesn't give a rats's arse you certainly prattled on there for a mo. If you have something to offer to a discussion offer it - if not - well, continue obtaining your spuds surreptitiously and promoting Lynn M as you do. :-P

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Adachinoryu...

Seems you wish to keep some conversations private yet have no intention of taking this and other conversations to PM. Please allow the board to PM you so we don't have to discuss this type of thing on the board.

That said, for your attempt to keep your "private conversation" private, you sure came out quickly to confirm your source once someone called you on it. It is one thing to stand for a principle and yet another to have the courage of your convictions. Again, I'd love to have a conversation with you offline on the matter...

[Ryukaze]

A mere 308 pounds! C'mon you gotta be kidding me this guys big enough to be a nose tackle in the NFL thats huge! Granted by sumo standards not the biggest (fattest..) but still. My boy has mad skills and killer instincts on the dohyo but thats like sayong would shaq be as good at basketball if he were say 6'5" or michael Jordan if he had been 5'10"? Weight and often times genetics plays a crucial role, especially when it comes to sports and power sports, it is ALOT more difficult for say a guy starting who weighs only about 150 as opposed to someone weighs say ohhh 220-230'ish (unless they try and take mad steroids or growth hormone and even then......). Which is my only gripe on one of the purist sports and best forms of one one on competition in exhistance. With weight divisions the playing field would definately be level (or to a much greater extent at least) than it is now but until an international/pro leage is somehow began (which we can only pray will come about) I dont see this happening. Untile then the factor of "comparative advantage" will play a role in our sport. SICKNESS! lol - "Ryu"

Edited February 19, 2005 by Ryukaze

[Sasanishiki]

Is anyone (probably ShiroiKuma) able to shed more light on the first Hungarian who quite Ozumo? Who was he, how long did he stay, how was he recruited, why did he leave, when was all of this? Had he been active in amatuer sumo, or is he still?

Hopefully this is not prying too deeply and is not a matter of international secrecy... (Being ninja...)

[Xris]

Wow,...That's very brutal. Only a Mongolian can be that brutal, right ?

The whole image fits perfectly to the perceptions the world has about us.

Brutal, killing ,lawless. wild and  hard punching Mongolians. I hate that image.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Coo-cook, just one point to put your mind at ease (if I can). I don't think many people see mongolians as brutal barbarians. I mean, any people who has a racist mind will find ways to discredite any people they want to discredite. You can always see bad things in people (French or Mongolians or Japanese or any others). For me, Mongolia is a rather unknown and mythic place in Asia, with a name that ring a huge bell in history, but more in a nice way than a bad way (after all, a few centuries ago most people were "barbarians").

But what is more important is that I don't think that the behavior of one men is the behavior of all his people. Even is Asashoryu was really a bad guy with a mean streak (which I don't think is true), it would not make think anything less about other Mongolian people.

So please take some ease, I don't think that image you are so afraid of is as strong as you think. And if it is, let them cry in the void.

[Taka]

Well said. (Being ninja...)

[Sasanishiki]

It's funny that Kawaigari should come up. I was just reading last night a biography of Akebono and the author talked about kawaigari and how Akebono hated it, but it was really used as a way of encouraging and improving him. It also fosters the spirit of gaman to overcome hardship.

Later, Akebono realised that it was necessary once he had been in sumo longer. He realised, for example, that it was necessary to use to try and get his brother to fit into the discipline and hierarchy of sumo and the heya. Sounds brutal -welts all over the body to try and 'break' the wild rikishi.

So, kawaigari can be (and is) used as encouragement and a development tool, as well as a form of punishment. I guess it just depends on the application and the situation.

[Coo-cook]

Thanks Xris and ShiroiKuma,

Asashoryu's conduct is probably quite understandable for people like you, who knows sumo. But, for many, it may be seen as a part of Mongolian brutality described in history books which are often not true, falsified, exaggerated out of proportion or simply racist. That's why I'm uneasy with this kind of articles,sometimes. Glad you don't share this kind of view.

Edited February 21, 2005 by Coo-cook