Sumou and Peaking - Part 1

[Hananotaka]

I posted this to the Sumo ML, and thought I might as well put it up here as well.

---

Have Rikishi Gotten Weaker?

Thorough Analysis: Frequent Injuries and Kyuujou

Part 18

[Doitsuyama]

Nice translation. Really well done. I'd be happy to see the other installments as well. :-)

[Kintamayama]

Fascinating, as it is quite similar in music, although the "training" of course is totally different. It's like when you do three /four consecutive gigs it's difficult on everything, especially at my ripe old age and taking into consideration the pathetic physical shape I'm in... You have to "learn" how to dispense your energy in such a way that you can appear to be breezing throught it all. When you do 23 shows in one month, it gets a bit harder, although I haven't doen that for quite some time now..

Will the next installment be "Sumo and Shanghai"? :-)

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

Thanks Josh!

Technical peaking is also largely about physical peaking in the sense that technical peaking usually happens when the innervation is at peak condition and for that one needs that light but sharp keiko. Weightlifters especially need this kind of innervation sensitization peaking keiko/rest as they have to have optimal explosiveness in their lifts and with tired innervation, it becomes a big struggle. I think sometimes in Chiyotaikai's sumo this shows well. It shows immediately when he is still stiff from hard keiko and not peaking yet. Then at times he is like a fast detonating explosive when he erupts and goes for balanced and strong tsuki.

In shitaku-beya all rikishi do quite a lot of warming up I believe. Part of it is always sharp movements like running suriashi and tachi-ai surges. This is all to not only warm up the muscles but also tune up the innervation and be ready for fast action.

All forum members who have done serious streangth training at any point using heavy weights and feeling the fatique piling know that the capital comes into use mainly after some rest or peaking. Sometimes for a overtrainer like Futeno etc. a small injury that prevents excessive keiko can be good as then the rest can do wonders and overtrainer can suddenly perform better at honbasho too.

Over-recovery is creating a stronger body through rest. The fact is, muscles do not grow stronger during the time of intense training. They become stronger in that time afterwards when they are at rest.

If you do intense keiko, naturally the body grows fatigued. But if you get enough rest, the body tries to become strong enough to endure another round of the same kind of training. Over-recovery attempts to utilize this working of the body.

And this is the reason I believe 90% minimum of all top level strength athletes use hormones. Steroids, growth hormone etc. accelerate this recovery process significantly and it automatically helps the building up process. It is very simple really. When rikishi does hard keiko, his muscle fibres undergo microtears and the structure of the smallest components of the muscle fibres gets "messed up". During rest, these will be repaired and possible new fibres built in order to withstand similar strain in the future. Rikishi needs proteins for this process but anabolic hormones greatly enhance the anabolic pathway and accelerate the recovery and promote the muscle overcompensation. It is very efficient system and one can treat a person suffering from massive injuries also with steroids to speed up the recovery process of the muscles .

So by speeding up recovery from intense keiko with the use of anabolic steroids and growth hormone enables the athtele to train more often and harder and yet give the muscles time to overcompensate. I have talked with 2 steroid users whom both said "Oh I knew nothing about real hard core training before started using". They meant that the difference between training without steroids and with steroids is big and much tougher keiko is possible.

Physical peaking via extremely hard keiko and then subsequent rest works much better with the help of anabolic cocktail. It is understandable that these kind of articles don't even mention it but it does leave a major player out of the analysis.

[Coo-cook]

Yeah, I heard Hakuho, Ama , Asasekiryu and Tokitenku all use steroids too. Only Kyokushuzan and Kyokutenho don't use steroids as all the Japanese rikishis.That's what I heard....

And, it's true, trust me.

[Asashosakari]

Yeah, I heard Hakuho, Ama , Asasekiryu and Tokitenku all use steroids too. Only Kyokushuzan and Kyokutenho don't use steroids as all the Japanese rikishis.That's what I heard....

And, it's true, trust me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pray tell, where did anybody insinuate that steroid usage is a Mongolian thing?

(One of these days I'll figure out why certain people consider any negative criticism of Asashoryu as an attack on all Mongolian rikishi...until then: :-P)

On a happier note: Thanks for undertaking the huge task of translating that article, Hananotaka! (Sign of approval) I really appreciate it a lot.

Edited December 21, 2004 by Asashosakari

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

But for other Rikishi, I think you're wrong in the judgement that they use steroids. From my experiences, and what I've seen and so, I think the vast majority do not. Basically I think it's exceptions, like Asashouryuu...

Well this is one of the eternity questions that is largely speculation naturally although my standpoint comes more from knowing about the physiology or mechanisms of the steroids and the affect and indications for use in sports. I do hope you are right that majority of rikishi don't use steroids but it is just so difficult to imagine considering there aren't even any consequences (no doping tests) in ozumo and in sumo strength is very important for most of the rikishi. In any case, whether steroid usage exists in ozumo in major or minor scale, is unknown and all discussion is just speculation anyway. The counter argument that steroid usage would be kind of degrading the spirit of overcoming oneself through honest means and walk the road of sumodou (of which you have written some excellent thought-provoking posts here) is of course there. I just wonder that if steroids would happen to be embedded part of ozumo, would it be considered as something vile or unacceptable within ozumo community or would it be more like just another tool to work and live that sumodou. Community's values are defined by the community itself.

You are an insider in ozumo and hence see, hear and sense everything first-hand so if your view is that steroids are not seen as "ok" tool in ozumo and rikishi+oyakata in general aren't inclined to explore those possibilities, then it might well be so that my impressions on this are way too pessimistic and reality is "cleaner" in this sense.

Kyokai's own actions do raise suspicions though. Sweeping the unofficial doping tests plan under the carpet without any real reason was highly peculiar. The explanations of testing arrangement problems etc. were completely strange. Then Chiyonofuji's nai'ive comment to reporter's questions about steroid usage in ozumo didn't do any good either. A blunt "Rikishi don't use drugs" answer is rather hmmm....same kind of comment like if nation X's president would say "X's soldiers don't commit war crimes" to a question about X's soldiers' questionable behaviour in their war zones. Both statements belittle the intelligence of the public badly and offer no answer to the question itself since the answer is so ridiculous. Would be so good to hear ONE oyakata discuss about steroids in ozumo at some level and not wave it away as it it was a stupid question or bring it up in tabloid press.

[Kintamayama]

oWould be so good to hear ONE oyakata discuss about steroids in ozumo at some level and not wave it away as it it was a stupid question or bring it up in tabloid press.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Isegahama Oyakata supposedly spoke about it "openly" with the Shukan Post recently, no?

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

Isegahama Oyakata supposedly spoke about it "openly" with the Shukan Post recently, no?

Yes..and that is the "tabloid press" i was referring to...

[Kintamayama]

Isegahama Oyakata supposedly spoke about it "openly" with the Shukan Post recently, no?

Yes..and that is the "tabloid press" i was referring to...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Shukan Post is a very serious tabloid press. It has nice pictures.

[Hananotaka]

I have no idea how many rikishi are doping, if any. Certainly it isn't easy to tell, although I have my suspicions about Takanohana.

But as one possible incentive for rikishi not to dope, consider that they are a very superstitious lot, and this acts as something of a drag on competition. Many rikishi, for example, are quite leery about any kind of surgery. Nakamoto-sensei mentioned this way back when Wakanosato first came back from his ACL injury. It was quite notable that Wakanosato chose surgery, given the stigma it has in sumo circles.

Now, I'm not saying it would totally deter rikishi from doping, but I do think such attitudes, traditions, and superstitions would make the percentage of rikishi doping lower than in major American sports and the Olympics.

[Hananotaka]

But as one possible incentive for rikishi not to dope, consider that they are a very superstitious lot, and this acts as something of a drag on competition.  Many rikishi, for example, are quite leery about any kind of surgery.  Nakamoto-sensei mentioned this way back when Wakanosato first came back from his ACL injury.  It was quite notable that Wakanosato chose surgery, given the stigma it has in sumo circles. 

I'm quite surprised at this, that Rikishi would be superstitious about surgery.

You know it might be so, but I've not encountered that attitude with any Rikishi I know, including Wakanosato.

Well, of course, you wouldn't see that with Wakanosato. That's why I mentioned him as being unusual.

But it's no hard knowledge of mine that I was posting from. I was just repeating what Nakamoto-sensei, the Kyokai's trainer, wrote in his Ozumou collumn a few years back (2001, I think). But times do change.

Edited December 23, 2004 by Hananotaka

[Sasanishiki]

With Rikishi, they have different Routines, like some put salt on their elbows, or on top of the front of the Mawashi. This is seen as superstition. But they don't really believe that this will help them win, or keep injury away.

It's just the same kind of Routine, which they follow.

And it's the same thing with not shaving when you win. Nobody believes that this is some magical thing that will bring about victory. It's just athletic Routine, commonly held to be done when one is winning, so most Rikishi do it. But I don't think this is really superstition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with most of your post above, especially the idea that because sumo has a lot of ritual it is seen to be mystical and the rikishi are therefore superstitious blah, blah, blah.

However, I think that both routines AND superstitions exist, and that your post shows this. For example, you mention the routines that rikishi go through to prepare themselves for their match (rubbing salt on elbows etc). This is common to some athletes in almost all sports, and it is a routine to get them psychologically ready for what is facing them. To me a routine would be applied consistently to create this psychological effect before every bout.

However, you then talk about not shaving when they are winning. Surely this becomes a superstition if it is not applied all the time. If not shaving is a routine then it should be done (or not done) for EVERY bout, not just to maintain some streak. Likewise, if a routine is changed because it caused a loss then this is not really a routine but a superstition. (I would add another possible superstition that rikishi have as the colour of the mawashi they wear for the basho.)

What I mean is, a routine should prepare you for a bout. If it is then altered just because you lost a bout then can it be said to have been effective preparation for all the other wins you had. If the answer is no (shown by changing the routine) then does this not constitute a superstition?

Edited December 23, 2004 by Sasanishiki

[Jonosuke]

In sumo there is a phrase called "Gen wo katsugu", basically meaning being

superstitious. For instance once winning a few bouts certain rikishis will come and go home using exactly the same way. I've come across many examples like this so my impression is that they are a superstitious lot. This is quite different from psyching themselves prior to their bout like a ritual Takamisakari does before the final shikiri.

I've seen Kaiou pouring water over his front mawashi at the back of Hanamichi just prior to coming in. He does this before every bout but I don't think it's a superstition at all. He said something like it would have some effect on his mawashi but I really don't know what as I've never done it myself. Is it a strategy? Personally I think it's closer to what Takamisakari does than anything. It's a part of slowly mentally preparing himself for the impending bout.

[Chienoshima]

In sumo there is a phrase called "Gen wo katsugu", basically meaning being

superstitious. For instance once winning a few bouts certain rikishis will come and go home using exactly the same way.  I've come across many examples like this so my impression is that they are a superstitious lot.  This is quite different from psyching themselves prior to their bout like a ritual Takamisakari does before the final shikiri.

I've seen Kaiou pouring water over his front mawashi at the back of Hanamichi just prior to coming in. He does this before every bout but I don't think it's a superstition at all.  He said something like it would have some effect on his mawashi but I really don't know what as I've never done it myself.  Is it a strategy? Personally I think it's closer to what Takamisakari does than anything.  It's a part of slowly mentally preparing himself for the impending bout.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, I don't think pouring water on his mawashi is a supertition at all. I remember the bout between Musashimaru and Takanohana on the senshuraku during the Kyushu basho 1999. Both yokozuna were 11-3 and the winner took the yusho. I saw this bout on TV, and I was shocked by Musashimaru's mawashi. He held his usual bright blue mawashi, but he poured so much water on it that the whole mawashi got darker. I noticed it because there were some remaining bright blue spots in the back of his mawashi. At that time I did not understand, later on by screwing a beautiful tie, I just realized that when you pour water on silk clothes featuring several layers of silk like a mawashi, all the layers collide to each other and it becomes difficult to seperate one layer from another.

So, when Musashimaru stepped on the dohyo with a huge amount of water on his mawashi, he simply made his mawashi much tougher to hold. Takanohana, a notorious mawashi man, was nit able to catch Musashimaru's mawashi by putting his hands between the silk layers. He had to take the whole mawashi, all the layers of silk, to get into a yotsu position. Moreover, a wet mawashi is slippier and it is easier to loose a mawashi grip.

As a Takanohana fan, I thought this was not fair at all, but Musashimaru was not really cheating as there is no rule about mawashi. Afterwards, I always checked the mawashi of Takanohana's opponents, and most of time they used tricks. For example, Musoyama's mawashi was always exceptionnally loose when he fought Takanohana.

In my opinion, mawashi stuffs are not supertitions at all but real strategies.

Greetings from Paris,

Chienoshima

[Hananotaka]

But it's no hard knowledge of mine that I was posting from.  I was just repeating what Nakamoto-sensei, the Kyokai's trainer, wrote in his Ozumou collumn a few years back (2001, I think).  But times do change.

Incidently, when I say "superstitious", I'm not talking "don't shave while winning" superstitious, I'm talking "no women on the dohyo" superstitious.

[Xris]

...

But in Oozumou they're not banned, so is a Rikishi who's taking them cheating?

...

I think basically it boiled down to the fact that they realized that probably the only guy who'd get caught in the tests would be a Yokodzuna, and what are you gonna do then. That would've been a bad PR blow to the Kyoukai. I've thought at that time that they waged an internal war between the Sumoudou guys saying, we have to go out and test, to filter out the bad weed, and the PR guys saying, but for sure the one guy we're gonna catch is the Yokodzuna and what do we say then.

...

I thinking again about your arguments and it sounds a bit as well-wishing to me (you could also call me a bit cynist if you want :-P ). If the Kyoukai really wanted to stop the use of steroids, all they had to do was to ban them, starting at a certain time! This means that, after a certain amount of time to let people take their responsabilities, they would start to test. As you said, there is no ban now, so there is no reason to punish people for a past (non-forbidden) behavior. Asashoryu could be using steroids as a favorite dish now, this would have no effect to next year regulations.

Speaking of suspicions, the fact that Kotogoshiku "... gained over 20

kg since his Juryo debut at this year's Nagoya Basho" is suspicious. I mean, I don't think the guy was taking steroids, but this is certainly suspicious. Paradoxically, Asashoryu who did not gain much weight in a very short time, who is young and certainly more able to do hard keiko is less suspicious (now, to be honest, looking at him, I'm suspicious. It's either bad food or steroids :-P ).

Finally two thoughts: 1) Asashoryu is certainly not liked in Japan (Mongol, arrogant, better than the Japanese people, etc) so there is bound to be a lot of deragotary stories about him. 2) Banning steroids now is probably the worst time if the Kyoukai want somebody to step out and beat Asashoryu. This will forbid young people to use them too and raise higher that the yokozuna using the same tools. On the other hand, banning steroids starting next year would be a problem to Asa's future results. No? So why not do it?

[Doitsuyama]

Paradoxically, Asashoryu who did not gain much weight in a very short time, who is young and certainly more able to do hard keiko is less suspicious (now, to be honest, looking at him, I'm suspicious. It's either bad food or steroids  :-P ).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't get that, to be honest. Asashoryu'd weight development since 2000 (all Natsu basho) in kg was 106, 128 (!), 132, 140.2, 140. So I'd say, yes, Asashoryu gained a lot of weight in a single year which qualifies as a very short time. It's the time he went from Makushita 19 to Komusubi, by the way.

[Xris]

Paradoxically, Asashoryu who did not gain much weight in a very short time, who is young and certainly more able to do hard keiko is less suspicious (now, to be honest, looking at him, I'm suspicious. It's either bad food or steroids  :-P ).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't get that, to be honest. Asashoryu'd weight development since 2000 (all Natsu basho) in kg was 106, 128 (!), 132, 140.2, 140. So I'd say, yes, Asashoryu gained a lot of weight in a single year which qualifies as a very short time. It's the time he went from Makushita 19 to Komusubi, by the way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The 106-128 is certainly suspicious. If I remember correctly, this was before arriving in makuuchi because at that time, I was watching sumo only in Eurosport and the first time I saw him he was already around the 125 mark. So here is my mistake :-P. In a certain way, this is similar to Kotoshogiku. Both were young and growing, so it could be normal. The 128-140 in one-two years is less impressive, I think. It probably happened to a lot of rikishis at the same age, so it's difficult to draw any conclusion.

[Kintamayama]

Paradoxically, Asashoryu who did not gain much weight in a very short time, who is young and certainly more able to do hard keiko is less suspicious (now, to be honest, looking at him, I'm suspicious. It's either bad food or steroids  :-P ).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't get that, to be honest. Asashoryu'd weight development since 2000 (all Natsu basho) in kg was 106, 128 (!), 132, 140.2, 140. So I'd say, yes, Asashoryu gained a lot of weight in a single year which qualifies as a very short time. It's the time he went from Makushita 19 to Komusubi, by the way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The 106-128 is certainly suspicious. If I remember correctly, this was before arriving in makuuchi because at that time, I was watching sumo only in Eurosport and the first time I saw him he was already around the 125 mark. So here is my mistake :-P. In a certain way, this is similar to Kotoshogiku. Both were young and growing, so it could be normal. The 128-140 in one-two years is less impressive, I think. It probably happened to a lot of rikishis at the same age, so it's difficult to draw any conclusion.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not to mention Hakuhou's unbelievable growth.. That being said, I don't believe there is any doping in Sumo whatsoever. Only training, diet and love. These guys bulk up at a certain age-they come, they change their diets, training regimens and lifestyle in an extreme fashion-some sort of extreme physical change has to be a by-product.

So I am naive, shoot me..

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

The 106-128 is certainly suspicious.

Especially when it is more or less muscle mass. Gaining weight fast is not that hard for some people when it is mostly fat that they gain. Muscles are different story. 106=>128 in a year from an athlete who has trained his whole life is not just "bulking up", it is more like a miracle. Even 5kg muscle mass increase in a year is considered already a very substantial increase if no steroids involved when we talk about super trained athlete whose starting level is already very high.

Not to mention Hakuhou's unbelievable growth.. That being said, I don't believe there is any doping in Sumo whatsoever. Only training, diet and love. These guys bulk up at a certain age-they come, they change their diets, training regimens and lifestyle in an extreme fashion-some sort of extreme physical change has to be a by-product.

So I am naive, shoot me..

[Jonosuke]

Incidently, when I say "superstitious", I'm not talking "don't shave while winning" superstitious, I'm talking "no women on the dohyo" superstitious.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh that they tell you is definitely not a superstition but it's something about "customs and traditions" :-P :-P

[Coo-cook]

I know many cases of sudden weight gain in Mongolian wrestling. And, it's nothing to do with steroids. I think it's same in other sports. If you are over a certain age (from teenage to early adulthood) and train hard you gain weight very quickly.

Second,....I think ShiroiKuma himself has a certain attitude towards Asashoryu. I smell his attitude strongly from his writings, although he tries to write it as if it is not his attitude. Since he has a reputation of being an insider and a "wise guy" many forum members may tend to buy his tell..... Not me.

(Or, ShiroiKuma knows Asashoryu so well and personally ,which I doubt )

Many forum members don't like Asashoryu...but, their concerns and judgements are mostly fair and based on truth.

Sorry, I can't help thinking that ShiroiKuma is little bit jealous of Asashoryu.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Edited December 24, 2004 by Coo-cook

[Coo-cook]

Well,...ShiroiKuma, you already succeeded describing Asashoryu as a big steroid abuser and cheater, whether it was your intention or not and whether it's all rikishi's opinion or not.

I wish only that what you write is really the truth and is a follow up of "sumodou" behavior that you so cherish.

I mean, it's very serious to accuse a human for wrong doing specially if it's not proven. I would really abstain from writing such stuff. Even person like me who has no idea about sumoduo or honor it's beyond my dignity.

That's why I have a hard time to understand you why you would write such stuff.

Edited December 24, 2004 by Coo-cook