Hatsu Basho Banzuke Forecast

[Jonosuke]

Jiji Press Hatsu Basho Banzuke Forecast

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East Yokozuna Asashoryu

East Ozeki Kaiou

West Ozeki Chiyotaikai

East Sekiwake Wakanosato

West Sekiwake Miyabiyama

East Sekiwake Tochiazuma

East Komusubi Kotomitsuki

West Komusubi Hakuho

East M1 Iwakiyama

West M1 Kotonowaka

East M2 Tamanoshima

West M2 Tosanoumi

East M3 Tochinonada

West M3 Kokkai

East M4 Kotooshu

West M4 Roho

East M5 Kakizoe

West M5 Takamisakari

[Kishinoyama]

West Komusubi Hakuho

East M4 Kotooshu

West M4 Roho

Hakuho as a Komusubi..... Hope they are wrong... I was thinking Roho and Kotooshu would both be at maybe M3 or slightly higher..... Interesting Banzuke next time.

[Araiwa]

East Komusubi Kotomitsuki

West Komusubi Hakuho

Well, I also think that this would be the most likely solution. But shouldn't Hakuho at least pass Kotomitsuki with his 12-3 and be on the east side?

[Kishinoyama]

East Komusubi Kotomitsuki

West Komusubi Hakuho

Well, I also think that this would be the most likely solution. But shouldn't Hakuho at least pass Kotomitsuki with his 12-3 and be on the east side?

I don't think they would move Kotomitsuki to the West side since he was already a Komusubi and he had 10 wins but who knows what they will do... (First prize...)

[Xris]

East Komusubi Kotomitsuki

West Komusubi Hakuho

Well, I also think that this would be the most likely solution. But shouldn't Hakuho at least pass Kotomitsuki with his 12-3 and be on the east side?

I don't think they would move Kotomitsuki to the West side since he was already a Komusubi and he had 10 wins but who knows what they will do... (First prize...)

I think the rule is that you cannot demote a person who was kachi-koshi. So even with 8-7, Kotomitsuki could not have been demoted to Kw.

Edited November 28, 2004 by Xris

[Guest Danishiki]

In 1972 Nagoya there was 5 sekiwake. Why shouldnt be it happen again?

[Asashosakari]

In 1972 Nagoya there was 5 sekiwake. Why shouldnt be it happen again?

Sometimes the question is the answer. (First prize...) It has happened exactly once in all the time that banzukes were drawn up. Sure it can happen again, but it's exceedingly unlikely.

I think the rule is that you cannot demote a person who was kachi-koshi. So even with 8-7, Kotomitsuki could not have been demoted to Kw.

That rule goes out of the window in sanyaku. There are several examples of that happening, although Mickey's 10-5 shouldn't become such a case.

Edited November 28, 2004 by Asashosakari

[Kashunowaka]

I think the rule is that you cannot demote a person who was kachi-koshi. So even with 8-7, Kotomitsuki could not have been demoted to Kw.

This is different when it comes to the sanyaku ranks. A komusubi east can be "demoted" to komusubi west despite getting kachikoshi. It's not necessarily regarded as a demotion, though. This type of shifting around rikishi in the sanyaku ranks happens all the time. So from Ke to Kw with 8-7 is quite possible.

Outside of sanyaku, kachikoshi generally means no demotion. However, no rule without exceptions, although they are extremely rare.

[Kishinoyama]

In 1972 Nagoya there was 5 sekiwake. Why shouldnt be it happen again?

Sometimes the question is the answer. B-) It has happened exactly once in all the time that banzukes were drawn up. Sure it can happen again, but it's exceedingly unlikely.

I think the rule is that you cannot demote a person who was kachi-koshi. So even with 8-7, Kotomitsuki could not have been demoted to Kw.

That rule goes out of the window in sanyaku. There are several examples of that happening, although Mickey's 10-5 shouldn't become such a case.

Thanks for the link. Amazing to have a winning record and go from a Ke to Kw. The banzuke makers may be extremely unkind to Kotomitsuki this time... :-O

[Kashunowaka]

Jiji Press Hatsu Basho Banzuke Forecast

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East Yokozuna Asashoryu

East Ozeki Kaiou

West Ozeki Chiyotaikai

East Sekiwake Wakanosato

West Sekiwake Miyabiyama

East Sekiwake Tochiazuma

East Komusubi Kotomitsuki

West Komusubi Hakuho

By the way, if it turns out to be an uneven number of sekiwake, shouldn't Tochiazuma be on the west side?

[Yubiquitoyama]

By the way, if it turns out to be an uneven number of sekiwake, shouldn't Tochiazuma be on the west side?

No, the case of a single Yokozuna has been left out of that rule of late. If there had been an uneven number of Ozeki however (regardless of there being one or two Yokozuna), the last Sekiwake should have been west.

Edited November 28, 2004 by Yubiquitoyama

[Jonosuke]

One more this time from Sankei Newspaper:

The Sankei Shimbun newspaper Forecast

===========================

East Yokozuna Asashoryu

East Ozeki Kaiou

West Ozeki Chiyotaikai

East Sekiwake Wakanosato

West Sekiwake Miyabiyama

West Sekiwake Tochiazuma

East Komusubi Kotomitsuki

West Komusubi Hakuho

East M1 Iwakiyama

West M1 Kotonowaka

East M2 Tamanoshima

West M2 Kotooshu

East M3 Tochinonada

West M3 Tosanoumi

East M4 Roho

West M4 Kokkai

East M5 Kakizoe

West M5 Takamisakari

[Kashunowaka]

West Sekiwake Tochiazuma

See? (Applauding...)

[Asashosakari]

West Sekiwake Tochiazuma

See? (Applauding...)

Well, that's not the only thing that strikes me as unlikely about the Sankai Shimbun guess. (Applauding...)

[Kashunowaka]

West Sekiwake Tochiazuma

See? (Applauding...)

Well, that's not the only thing that strikes me as unlikely about the Sankai Shimbun guess. (Applauding...)

I didn't check the rest very closely ... You mean that Asashoryu should be yokozuna west? (Applauding...)

[Asashosakari]

West Sekiwake Tochiazuma

See? (Applauding...)

Well, that's not the only thing that strikes me as unlikely about the Sankai Shimbun guess. (Applauding...)

I didn't check the rest very closely ... You mean that Asashoryu should be yokozuna west? (Applauding...)

Geez. (Applauding...) No, mostly I'm referring to Kotooshu's placement relative to Roho and Kokkai. But Kokkai's rank in itself seems way off...they just don't demote 7-8 meatgrinder rikishi 2 full ranks without damned good reason these days.

I'm much more agreeable with the Jiji guess. ;-)

[charliki]

East Sekiwake Wakanosato

West Sekiwake Miyabiyama

West Sekiwake Tochiazuma

In this case, the east side would be free for Hakuho or Kotomitsuki. What do you think about this ? :

S1E Wakanosato

S1W Miyabiyama

S2E Hakuho

S2W Tochiazuma

KE Kotomitsuki.

KW Iwakiyama

;-)

[Kashunowaka]

East Sekiwake Wakanosato

West Sekiwake Miyabiyama

West Sekiwake Tochiazuma

In this case, the east side would be free for Hakuho or Kotomitsuki. What do you think about this ? :

S1E Wakanosato

S1W Miyabiyama

S2E Hakuho

S2W Tochiazuma

KE Kotomitsuki.

KW Iwakiyama

;-)

I like this guess.

[Jakusotsu]

I like this guess.

I like Your signature.

[Takamueda]

GTB will be very, very difficult this time. The Sekiwake/Komusubi-Question, The question who goes down to Juryo beside Toki and many discrepances in mid Maegashira make the Banzuke Creation harder than ever.

[Araiguma_Rascal]

Hajimemashite, this is my first post. I've really become interested in Sumo recently and have been following it but I've had many questions that I wanted to discuss, but no one to discuss them with. I'm glad I found this forum because it looks like exactly what I'm looking for.

I have the following questions about the Banzuke, if someone would be kind enough to help me:

Is it possible for there to be three Yokozuna (or more?)

Are there limits to the number of sanyaku, either at each level or for the sanyaku as a whole?

Is is possible to to jump straight for #1 maegashira to Ozeki? (I'm thinking of Hakuho) In th July tournament Miyabiyama was ranked at #7 east maegashira, he posted a 12-3 record and was promoted to sekiwake for the next tournament (See Here). So shouldn't Hakuho at #1 maegashira with a 12-3 record, an outstanding performance award, and a kinboshi in this tournament be at least sekiwake rather than komusubi?

Thanks

[Kintamayama]

Two Japanese newspapers independantly both having Hakuhou at Komusubi west should raise some questions and doubts among those who are certain that Hakuhou will be Sekiwake.

[Xris]

Is it possible for there to be three Yokozuna (or more?)

Yes

Are there limits to the number of sanyaku, either at each level or for the sanyaku as a whole?

None that I know of

Is is possible to to jump straight for #1 maegashira to Ozeki?

I don't think it is forbidden, but you have to prove to be at Ozeki level during THREE tournaments, and you won't do this without becoming Komosubi or Sekiwake in the process.

In th July tournament Miyabiyama was ranked at #7 east maegashira, he posted a 12-3 record and was promoted to sekiwake for the next tournament. So shouldn't Hakuho at #1 maegashira with a 12-3 record, an outstanding performance award, and a kinboshi in this tournament be at least sekiwake rather than komusubi?

At that time, there was no good candidates for Sekiwake rank. Right now, there is a free slot only in Komosubi ranks and no rules in Sumo say how FAR you should be promotted. Hakuho won't be promotted far, because there is just no space right at the moment (this won't change anything to his (eventual) future promotions to ozeki and yokozuna - this may even motivate him even more).

Edited November 29, 2004 by Xris

[Araiguma_Rascal]

Thank you for those answers.

I agree with you that he will be a Yokozuna soon. His basho was very impressive, beating both the Yokozuna and the East Ozeki/Yokozuna aspirant, and looking very strong in doing it.

Edited November 29, 2004 by Araiguma_Rascal

[Zeokage]

There's also the fact that there has to be at least 2 Sekiwake and 2 Komusubi, which is what brings up the question of "free" slots.