Choitaikai party pooper

[MongolPower]

Choitaikai has poopped all over the "Hakuho for the yusho" bandwagon! Damn you Choitaikai!

(Pulling hair...)

[Jakusotsu]

What really disturbs me is that Hakuho wasn't even granted a mono-ii. All of my fellows in the chat watching the live stream had their doubts about Chiyo not stepping out first, but the gunbai wasn't even challenged.

Together with the strange reservation in Hakuho's demeanour, this bout had yaocho written all over it. I've lost my believe in Ozumo a bit more after this.

I may be completely wrong (I wish!), but that's how I feel at the moment.

[Asashosakari]

What really disturbs me is that Hakuho wasn't even granted a mono-ii. All of my fellows in the chat watching the live stream had their doubts about Chiyo not stepping out first, but the gunbai wasn't even challenged.

Together with the strange reservation in Hakuho's demeanour, this bout had yaocho written all over it. I've lost my believe in Ozumo a bit more after this.

I may be completely wrong (I wish!), but that's how I feel at the moment.

Yep, because any time the "wrong" person wins, it must be yaocho. Lots and lots of yaocho on Day 12, actually, judging by the various sumo game scores.

I don't guess Hakuho's "strange reservation" could possibly have anything to do with him being in the yusho lead for the first time ever. Hey, maybe Chiyotaikai's yaocho win was just payback for Hakuho's yaocho win over Hokutoriki six months ago. Taikai and Hoku are in the same ichimon, after all.

/sarcasm

[Doitsuyama]

Hmm, didn't you think Hakuho's reservation after the victories against Kaio and Asashoryu also was strange? And what about his reservation during those bouts, staying totally calm?

In case you haven't noticed it yet, Hakuho is by far the most calm rikishi I have ever seen, so it doesn't surprise me at all he wouldn't move an eyelid at the sight of a blown call, even at the expense of a possible yusho.

Screaming out bloody yaocho without something more presentable then a rikishi's reactions lets me wish Kotoseiya back. He at least always found the correct words for this.

[Kashunowaka]

What really disturbs me is that Hakuho wasn't even granted a mono-ii. All of my fellows in the chat watching the live stream had their doubts about Chiyo not stepping out first, but the gunbai wasn't even challenged.

Together with the strange reservation in Hakuho's demeanour, this bout had yaocho written all over it. I've lost my believe in Ozumo a bit more after this.

I may be completely wrong (I wish!), but that's how I feel at the moment.

Sigh ... I thought yaocho meant a fixed bout. Sounds like pretty bad bout-fixing to me, if it wasn't even clear to you who won. Perhaps in the heat of the moment, Hakuho forgot that he was supposed to lose?

[Taka]

I honestly have no idea but I would lie if I said I wasn't disappointed by the major bouts today.

Hakuho,Kaio and Wakanosato....they all just seemed to freeze. Not to say that their opponents didn't fight good bouts. Asashoryu and Miyabiyama most certainly did. But with Chiyotaikai, it looked on the surface to me, that he simply did what he has done so often the last couple of bashos. A relative weak oshi attack. It didn't look like the "old" Chiyotaikai to me. Hakuho on the other hand looked ancient (Pulling hair...) Well I'm gonna watch the bouts again, looking for explainations, and to be fair I'm quite confident that there are others that are if not more, then at least as likely as say yaocho....

(Consoling...)

[Jakusotsu]

(Pulling hair...) It was good to read Your thoughts on this case. After all, You convinced me that it was nothing more than a bad feeling I had, and that is all I wished for.

No more dubious bouts in the last three days, please...

[Kashunowaka]

Hakuho on the other hand looked ancient (Pulling hair...)

Do you really think he looked that old? (Consoling...) Is anxious the word you are looking for? I wouldn't blame Hakuho if he starts feeling nervous with all the excitement around him.

[Taka]

I really can't tell if he was anxious or not. Only guess. Sure it's only natural if he was, and on top of that of course also a valid explaination for what I think was a pretty poor performance.

What I can say though is that my impression was that he was slow and that's basically what I'm getting at. His movement was ancient. He looked more like an old man than the 19 old panther we've gotten used to see.

Edited November 25, 2004 by Taka

[Manekineko]

One more thought why this would be an unlikely yaocho:

Surely Hakuho (if he can be "persuaded" to lose) would rather lose to Asashoryu, thus securing his "big brother" a yusho... or if it is big bad Kyokai on the move, wouldn't "forcing" Hakuho to lose make more sense in the KaioU bout? Since it is a Japanese yokozuna that Kyokai wants.

On the other hand, if yaocho was to give Taikai much needed wins and avoid kadoban... wouldn't Japanese wrestlers like Miyabiyama, Tochinonada, Kotomitsuki and Tamanoshima, all more-or-less veterans and with secure upper makuuchi positions, be more likely candidates for yielding a win to the Ozeki? And yet they didn't... Trying to convince a foreigner and such an obvious rising star to lose to Chiyotaikai after two brilliant wins seems just... plain stupid.

And in the end: real yaocho is probably impossible for laymen such as myself to spot, being well coreographed by professionals in the sport.

All this written without seeing the bout, of course. (Pulling hair...)

[Zuikakuyama]

It seems to me that Hakuho's left foot stepped out first before Chiyotaikai's left went out. Plus Chiyo was clearly the aggressor, so the win was deserved.

About the Yaocho thing, you think they would have done it better and cleaner than the way the 2 of them went out only split seconds after one another. Something so close like this would be almost impossible to achieve without considerable prior head-to-head practice.

[QttP]

Something so close like this would be almost impossible to achieve without considerable prior head-to-head practice.

Maybe they practiced it secretly... Who knows?

[KIKENNA]

It just seems to me that Hakuho still doesn't have the maturity , altough we all agree that his behaviour is pretty kool :-P for a youngster that he is. He shows great calmness during and more importanly after the bouts, but sometimes it looks to me like he just doesn't know what to do after the tachiai. No tactics whatsoever. At least it LOOKS that way.

I knew that he will mess things up after he beat Asa. In Aki basho he looked like a natural born Yokozuna in some bouts (the way he handled Musoyama who is 30+ kilos heavier on the mawashi and how he outsmarted Dejima) and then you see him doing nothing against Kotomitsuki the next day for example. Same in Kyushu. And Chiyotaikai is not a piece of cake (well maybe some of the ladies would disagree with me on this:), even when he's not having such a good basho.

But even now I'm soooo looking forward to the January basho. ;-) I think the kids will go crazy... and the europeans will join in.

[Kishinoyama]

Together with the strange reservation in Hakuho's demeanour, this bout had yaocho written all over it.

I hear this word yaocho a lot when talking about sumo. Until someone has one of the rikishi on video and audio taking money to lose, I will not believe it happens. ;-)

[kotooshu_bulgaria]

OOPS! Kotooshu pooped on your bandwagon, too! Sorry! (Holiday feeling...)