Hakuho defeated Asashoryu!

[Coo-cook]

Thank you very much for the movies, Dale.

Seeing the movies I'm thinking Hakuho just had a luck with Asa and Kaio.

He is very slippery and smooth and defended himself well against any mawashi grips. But, the loses are to blame for Asa and Kaio's unnecessary urges, I think.

(Hakuho wasn't overpowering at all).

Good lesson for them.

Edited November 24, 2004 by Coo-cook

[Takemi]

He is very slippery and smooth and defended himself well against any mawashi grips. But, the loses are to blame for Asa and Kaio's unnecessary urges, I think.

(Hakuho wasn't overpowering at all).

Good lesson for them.

Couldn

Edited November 24, 2004 by Takemi

[Guest MGLSekitori]

Thank you very much for the movies, Dale.

Seeing the movies I'm thinking Hakuho just had a luck with Asa and Kaio.

He is very slippery and smooth and defended himself well against any mawashi grips. But, the loses are to blame for Asa and Kaio's unnecessary urges, I think.

(Hakuho wasn't overpowering at all).

Good lesson for them.

Sometimes it is better to be lucky than good! (Holiday feeling...)

[KIKENNA]

I'd really like to see Asa beat the  (Censored)  out of the yokozunas now, especially Chiyo

(Holiday feeling...)

the yokozunas? chiyo? u mean chiyonofuji? does asa have a secret time machine or will this be a basketball-style into-the-crowd attack-the-shinpan thing?

:-D

lapsus linguae- meant ozekis

Altough I wouldn't mind seeing another Asa-Takanohana bout, even if its off dohyo (Birthday!) (Applauding...)

But that would be too PRIDE/Pancrace style, even for a character such as Asa...

[Jonosuke]

Seeing the movies I'm thinking Hakuho just had a luck with Asa and Kaio.

He is very slippery and smooth and defended himself well against any mawashi grips. But, the loses are to blame for Asa and Kaio's unnecessary urges, I think.

(Hakuho wasn't overpowering at all).

Hakuho's style is not bulldozing into his opponent and blasts them away so he may be overwhelming but not as obvious. I feel it wasn't a luck at all when Hakuho won over Kaiou and Asashoryu in the last two days.

Kaiou dug his own grave by pulling Hakuho in and tried to throw him around by kote-nage. But this happened because he could not get the mawashi nor push him out straight. Hakuho just kept coming into him and there was no choice for him

but to go for his usual desparate throw. And you know the rest.

Now for Asashoryu. Why did he do what he did coming out of the tachiai today? Asashoryu has done enough training sessions with Hakuho. He is a good student of sumo. He does study his opponents well and analyzes their moves. Hakuho himself was suprised by Asashoryu's move at the tachi-ai. Obviously Asashoryu tried for an "unexpected" factor in to gain an advantage. But why would he need to do something like this? Because Asashoryu knows very well that Hakuho is as good a student of sumo as himself. He knew Hakuho has been analyzing his sumo moves and he realized he needed to bring in a new strategy.

Asashoryu can win either by oshi or yori and he is incredibly quick. Normally most rikishis cannot catch up to his speed and goes into a panic - their feet get tangled up or they get flat footed. But today, Hakuho never panicked nor rushed himself. He had Asashoryu in his horizon all the time. As a matter of fact it was Asashoryu who tried to rush himself too much and tried to push off Hakuho who evaded his move and was no longer around to be pushed out. At the end it was Hakuho's cool deliberate move over Asashoryu's uncharacteristic overeagered reaction which decided the outcome.

In both cases if their opponent was not Hakuho, both would have likely won their bout. But Hakuho won not by a luck but his deliberate moves and remaining completely calm all the time.

[Elenrian]

(In a bad mood...) I don't like this fight, particularly H.'s behaviour!!! >(Birthday!) In my opinion, he didn't go fighting, but he made like a "toreador", and defeated Asa while moving back!!! I thought the were or used to be, now) friends!!!

If I were in Asa's shoes, I would feel a bit "betrayed"!!! (Applauding...) :-D

(Holiday feeling...)

[Kashunowaka]

(In a bad mood...)  I don't like this fight, particularly H.'s behaviour!!! (Holiday feeling...)  In my opinion, he didn't go fighting, but he made like a "toreador", and defeated Asa while moving back!!! I thought the were or used to be, now) friends!!!

There is no pleasing some people ... (No-no...)

[Kishinoyama]

WOW! So how does this compare with the Takanohana - Chiyonofuji upset in the early 90's?

If Asashoryu retires in two days, we might have a valid comparison...

I was not saying or I do not think he is going to retire soon.... I should have worded it differently. I was just thinking in the history of sumo.... how does this rank with the alltime upsets? Is Futabayama - Akinoumi number one? Is this Asa Hakuho match in the top ten of alltime upsets?

[Coo-cook]

Hakuho never panicked nor rushed himself. He had Asashoryu in his horizon all the time

I agree. Maybe it wasn't a luck.

But, Asa and Kaio were both miscalculated their timing and were way too much in hurry....and gave nice and easy fodder for Hakuho.

They should've handled Hakuho like Tochiazuma handles his opponents. Low, firm, constant and "slow" moving gradual push.

By the way, now Hakuho's biggest challenge would be Chyotaikai. Taikai's lighting fast slap and pull down is something he should try to avoid.

[Jonosuke]

In my opinion, he didn't go fighting, but he made like a "toreador", and defeated Asa while moving back!!! I thought the were or used to be, now) friends!!!

If I were in Asa's shoes, I would feel a bit "betrayed"!!! (Holiday feeling...) (Applauding...)

In Bushi-doh, the greatest honor a disciple can ever bestow upon his master is to prevail over him.

And in my opinion Hakuho has done that admirably in one short month.

[Asashosakari]

Will KaioU remain focussed,win all his remaining bouts and force a 4-way kettei-sen (KaioU, Asa, Wakanosato, Hakuho) thereby ensuring his Yokozuna promotion?

FWIW, after Asa's loss to Hakuho, if everything goes as I outlined elsewhere (plus a loss by Hakuho somewhere), it'll be a 3-men playoff without Asashoryu. (Holiday feeling...) So, a 13-2 four-men playoff is out of the window now, although all four of them at 12-3 is still possible, but that now depends heavily on what Taikai does against them, so it seems unlikely to me.

Edited November 24, 2004 by Asashosakari

[Iwagakki]

Hakuho never panicked nor rushed himself. He had Asashoryu in his horizon all the time

I agree. Maybe it wasn't a luck.

But, Asa and Kaio were both miscalculated their timing and were way too much in hurry....and gave nice and easy fodder for Hakuho.

They should've handled Hakuho like Tochiazuma handles his opponents. Low, firm, constant and "slow" moving gradual push.

By the way, now Hakuho's biggest challenge would be Chyotaikai. Taikai's lighting fast slap and pull down is something he should try to avoid.

Actually, it looked like Kaio came out HARD, and knocked Hakuho back a couple of feet at the tachiai. That was solid. Maybe too solid. What impressed me is that Hakuho didn't back down there, he got backed down, and he still held himself together, and won. He tried to hit hard too, but Kaio is really strong.

In the match with Asa, he got backed up again, and was nearly done right away, but he kept it together, and did what needed to be done.

Beating Asa by Okuridashi is nothing that anyone could call "dishonorable" sumo. He didn't bait him and then jump out of the way and watch Asa run himself out of the dohyo, he caught his hand, used balance and momentum to spin him off, and pushed him out from behind. That is just as much the essence of sumo as a crushing tachiai is. If Asa had done exactly the same move, we would be celebrating his agility and creativity right now.

Beating Kaio by Yoritaoshi is nothing to turn your nose up at either. A "frontal crush out" speaks for itself. Beating Kaio by Yoritaoshi is something like beating Musashimaru by Tsuriotoshi. And oxymoron, almost. But, that's why it's impressive.

Kaio is still my favorite, ever. But you have to give the devil his due...

Edited November 24, 2004 by Iwagakki

[Iwagakki]

And... (Eating...) ...Hakuho took the kensho with his right hand....

(Neener, neener...)

[sekihiryu]

like beating Musashimaru by Tsuriotoshi. And oxymoron, almost.

(Munching...) now that would have been something! even more mind boggling - Konishiki!

If Bill Goldberg were a Rikishi he would try such a stunt (Neener, neener...)

[karlsmom]

Thank you very much for the movies, Dale.

Seeing the movies I'm thinking Hakuho just had a luck with Asa and Kaio.

He is very slippery and smooth and defended himself well against any mawashi grips. But, the loses are to blame for Asa and Kaio's unnecessary urges, I think.

(Hakuho wasn't overpowering at all).

Good lesson for them.

I agree with this.

But he did put up a good fight and didn't give up at once, always waiting for a loophole in the offense. (Sign of approval)

[Tenkashoryu]

I don't think they want to give Hakuho his grip at any cost.

Yeah, neither of Kaio and Asa want to give him mawashi grip, that's what gets me pissed off. My only guess is that either men believe that Hakuho is gonna be too strong for them from mawashi battle. (Neener, neener...) Noooh.. that cannot be, I still cannot believe.

They should've handled Hakuho like Tochiazuma handles his opponents. Low, firm, constant and "slow" moving gradual push.

But last time Azuma lost to Hakuho though even he threw everything what he had.

[

Edited November 25, 2004 by Tenkashoryu

[Tenkashoryu]

By the way, now Hakuho's biggest challenge would be Chyotaikai. Taikai's lighting fast slap and pull down is something he should try to avoid.

But. very easy win for Hakuho, afterall surviving from Asa's blasting thrusts.

Edited November 25, 2004 by Tenkashoryu

[Coo-cook]

They should've handled Hakuho like Tochiazuma handles his opponents. Low, firm, constant and "slow" moving gradual push.

But last time Azuma lost to Hakuho though even he threw everything what he had.

Tenkashoryu,

I was talking about Tochiazuma style and not about Tochiazuma himself.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough.

Edited November 25, 2004 by Coo-cook

[Jonosuke]

Has Dorji lost two straight to the same rikishi since becoming a yokozuna?

Wakanosato has won against Asashoryu in the Nagoya Basho and in the Aki Basho:

Basho Day Asashoryu Kimarite Wakanosato

2004 Aki 13 L Y1E Tsukiotoshi W S1E

2004 Nagoya 12 L Y1E Hatakikomi W S1E

Asashoryu lost to Kaio in his two first basho as yokozuna. Then there was the two losses against Shuzan, including the infamous hansoku incident. And Tochiazuma beat Asashoryu twice in a row last year.

Thanks, guys, I could have as easily checked this, but actually I wanted to see again the two pics of Maru and Aogiyama one after another again (Neener, neener...)

OK, here's some contribution of mine in this thread.

When Musoyama was coming up, as you remember he just used to blast his opponents away and he was known as the Monster of Heisei (Era).

Well now Japanese media are calling Hakuho, the Monster, or the "Monster from Mongolia", in Japanese it's "Kaibutsu" or "怪物". It's not in any sense meaning freakish or derogatory but more like the one who is possessing superhuman strength.

So you will start hearing a lot about this "Mongoru no Kaibutsu" from now on in Japanese media.

[Tenkashoryu]

Hakuho lost to Taikai.....(In a bad mood...) (Shaking head...)

Let me in the list of anthrax letter senders to his stable.

[QttP]

By the way, now Hakuho's biggest challenge would be Chyotaikai. Taikai's lighting fast slap and pull down is something he should try to avoid.

But. very easy win for Hakuho, afterall surviving from Asa's blasting thrusts.

Shows what you know... (Shaking head...) (Crowned...)

Chiyotaikai, even when he's 0-12, is an ozeki, and as such, can beat anyone on any given day. He has got the measure of guys like Hakuho.

Tomorrow Kaio goes down! (Yeah, right)

[Kashunowaka]

Hakuho lost to Taikai.....(In a bad mood...) (Shaking head...)

Let me in the list of anthrax letter senders to his stable.

Is this anthrax thing supposed to be funny?

[KIKENNA]

Hakuho lost to Taikai.....(In a bad mood...)  (Shaking head...)

Let me in the list of anthrax letter senders to his stable.

Is this anthrax thing supposed to be funny?

Tenkashoryu, you're officially on the list... I can hook you up with some people. (Crowned...)

I haven't seen the bout yet, but Hakuho's performance is pretty much unpredictable. Oftenly his inexperience prevails. Guess that happened yesterday. Altough when taikai finds his sumo he's tough, so I guess we all shouldn't be so surprised by all this. Only pissed... (In a bad mood...)

[Manekineko]

Hakuho lost to Taikai.....(In a bad mood...)  (Pulling hair...)

Let me in the list of anthrax letter senders to his stable.

Is this anthrax thing supposed to be funny?

Yes, if you're such fans of Hakuho (presumably) it's not really "appropriate" to threaten his life, you know. Even when joking, and I didn't notice many ;-) or lols for that matter.

KaioU also lost today when he shouldn't. And all i want to do to him is (Consoling...) (Hugging...) Girly, I know. B-)

[Manekineko]

Thanks, guys, I could have as easily checked this, but actually I wanted to see again the two pics of Maru and Aogiyama one after another again (Pulling hair...)

Actually, that's Kotoryu. (Consoling...)