Kyushu 2025 discussion (results)

[Kaninoyama]

26 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

I thought his background was in judo?

Wrestling. He originally was recruited to his Japanese HS as a wrestler before switching to sumo. 

Edited November 24 by Kaninoyama

[WAKATAKE]

At 21 years 8 months, Aonishiki makes a mark in the record books as the 4th youngest first makuuchi yusho winner

[Tigerboy1966]

I have question about Aonishiki's shikona and apologies if this has been explained elsewhere.

What exactly is the point of the "安" at the start of "安青錦"? As far as I can see the second and third kanji give us "Aonishiki". Wiktionary tells me that it means "peaceful", which is nice, but why is it silent?

[Akinomaki]

18 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I have question about Aonishiki's shikona and apologies if this has been explained elsewhere.

What exactly is the point of the "安" at the start of "安青錦"? As far as I can see the second and third kanji give us "Aonishiki". Wiktionary tells me that it means "peaceful", which is nice, but why is it silent?

Its the A from shisho Aminishiki

[dingo]

Due to the weekend I missed all the excitement, and what an exiting end it was! I didn't follow the kyujo list either so I was completely surprised when I saw on Kintamayama's video that Onosato pulled out of the yokozuna bout. A dream ending to the basho for Aonishiki, the future is really bright for him! With Onosato injured and Hoshoryu having no clue how to beat him, it really looks like the yokozuna rope is not too far. 

On the topic of Hoshoryu, I was quite convinced he would be able to figure out how to beat Aonishiki but so far he seems clueless. It's very surprising to see the usually technically proficient yokozuna so lost against one opponent. I tried to scan the recent-ish past and I didn't manage to find any case in the last 25 years where a yokozuna was 0-4 or more against one rikishi. There are a few 0-1 blips for most yokozuna but I didn't find such a loss record for any recent yokozuna. Curiously Hoshoryu is also 1-4 against Hidenoumi and 1-3 against Ichiyamamoto. No doubt he will get a win or a few against Aonishiki at some point, but at the moment it's such a stark contrast. 

Maybe someone who is more adept at database queries can find if there's any similar case in the past. 

[rhyen]

11 hours ago, Ripe said:

Would that even be possible? Chiyonofuji and Konishiki belonged to same Ichimon so it was probably easy to organize (and harder for Konishiki to refuse). Hoshoryu and Aonishiki do not belong to same Ichimon (weirdly enough, Tatsunami Heya is not part of Tatsunami Ichimon). I know there is joint training sessions organized between different heyas, but isn't that limited to Heya from within Ichimon?

Kirishima came to Isegahama for a wealth of training partners (I believe, on invitation from Terunofuji). Mainly Hakuoho and Atamifuji.

For Hoshoryu & Aonishiki, they are both the fittest (and best) sekitori in their heya. Meisei and Aqua probably cannot satisfy Hoshoryu training partner role. So he is in a Hakuho position, that he needs to go out and train?, or invite several sekitori to his heya to train? 
Aonishiki is being carefully managed by Ajigawa oyakata, he probably wants to maximize his training bouts before going to degeiko where he has to fight for more bouts among many other sekitori.

[Millwood]

6 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I have question about Aonishiki's shikona and apologies if this has been explained elsewhere.

What exactly is the point of the "安" at the start of "安青錦"? As far as I can see the second and third kanji give us "Aonishiki". Wiktionary tells me that it means "peaceful", which is nice, but why is it silent?

Off topic but I can't resist - that's one of my favorite kanji.  It's a roof over a woman - a woman in the house brings peace!

[BroadMeadow]

Most wins in first 5 yusho from debut in makuuchi. 

[Hakumadashi]

55 minutes ago, Millwood said:

Off topic but I can't resist - that's one of my favorite kanji.  It's a roof over a woman - a woman in the house brings peace!

I always found it funny that it also means “cheap” when used as an i-adjective (like in TakaYASU). Not sure if the etymology also lines up to the logographical one or woman under roof, but it’s hilarious nonetheless. 

[Tigerboy1966]

Here's another trivia bit. I took this from my own ss so I can't guarantee it's 100% accurate.

Most maku'uchi wins in the 2020's:

• 293 Daieisho, Kirishima
• 291 Hoshoryu
• 286 Kotozakura
• 266 Shodai
• 264 Takanosho
• 257 Tamawashi
• 253 Mitakeumi
• 250 Takayasu
• 228 Tobizaru

[Reonito]

According to this query, the rank order is accurate, the totals slightly off. You could play with it to exclude fusen, wins against juryo opponents, etc.

[Reonito]

While I was at it, there have been six uchimuso in the top division in the 2020's. Aonishiki has four of them (he also had one in juryo). Kotozakura has been on the receiving end of three of them, including two by Aonishiki, as well as two in this basho, Aonishiki day 15 and Takayasu day 3. He's the only rikishi ever to lose by this technique twice in a basho!

[Tigerboy1966]

3 hours ago, Reonito said:

According to this query, the rank order is accurate, the totals slightly off. You could play with it to exclude fusen, wins against juryo opponents, etc.

I think the discrepancy is mainly down to play-offs. I didn't include them.

Edited November 24 by Tigerboy1966
expanded

[Reonito]

51 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I think the discrepancy is mainly down to play-offs. I didn't include them.

Ah okay, you can check by setting the day to 1-15.

[Suwihuto]

On 18/11/2025 at 20:58, lackmaker said:

Are we heading for a dramatic last 3 days? 

Yes!

[Dairenzu]

Along with the big stuff, feels worth noting how crucial of a basho this was for Ichiyamamoto, swooping to a new high rank at age 32, especially after his big chance to make a move after July crumbled. By my amateur guesswork, heading to M1 will likely move him ahead of Chiyoshoma as the last man in on the Kabu credential list (based on anticipated future openings) due to a now better best rank, despite Chiyoshoma having a larger body of work because of Ichiyamamoto's late start. Also would move him ahead of Kagayaki, who was my first guy out before this basho. With Chiyoshoma and Kagayaki both on the upswing as well, it creates some incentive for these veterans to keep battling and try to push up and keep building their makuuchi totals. Churanoumi continuing to move up also is enticing - figure he will have to snake a sanyaku spot to get ahead of Ichi. Can't imagine anyone would not want to see Ichiyamamoto as an elder, although I guess he would maybe be an even better sumo tv personality.

Also congrats to Hiradoumi - despite the sadness of him struggling in Fukuoka again, he did reach Kabu eligibility.

 

 

 

[Bunbukuchagama]

1 minute ago, Dairenzu said:

By my amateur guesswork, heading to M1 will likely move him ahead of Chiyoshoma as the last man in on the Kabu credential list (based on anticipated future openings) due to a now better best rank, despite Chiyoshoma having a larger body of work because of Ichiyamamoto's late start. Also would move him ahead of Kagayaki, who was my first guy out before this basho.

I doubt a difference of a couple of Maegashira ranks would mean much as an advantage in kabu acquisition. 

[Dairenzu]

2 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

I doubt a difference of a couple of Maegashira ranks would mean much as an advantage in kabu acquisition. 

You very well may be right, that M1 vs M2 won't be relevant - but it does give Ichiyamamoto a clear case for consideration compared to being behind in career best rank and longevity. Obviously, have no idea how things will play out, but if the NSK really wants to control the title process I could see objective standards gaining importance as a way to really encourage wrestlers to keep pushing. Either way though, its a big result for Ichiyamamoto and now maybe just an 8-7 from sanyaku.

[Bunbukuchagama]

2 minutes ago, Dairenzu said:

You very well may be right, that M1 vs M2 won't be relevant - but it does give Ichiyamamoto a clear case for consideration compared to being behind in career best rank and longevity. Obviously, have no idea how things will play out, but if the NSK really wants to control the title process I could see objective standards gaining importance as a way to really encourage wrestlers to keep pushing. Either way though, its a big result for Ichiyamamoto and now maybe just an 8-7 from sanyaku.

I am happy for IYM, but his kabu acquisition will depend mostly on the level of his popularity resulting in financial support by sponsors. He will not be disqualified as "not good enough" anyway. 

[RabidJohn]

8 hours ago, Dairenzu said:

You very well may be right, that M1 vs M2 won't be relevant - but it does give Ichiyamamoto a clear case for consideration compared to being behind in career best rank and longevity. Obviously, have no idea how things will play out, but if the NSK really wants to control the title process I could see objective standards gaining importance as a way to really encourage wrestlers to keep pushing. Either way though, its a big result for Ichiyamamoto and now maybe just an 8-7 from sanyaku.

If I recall correctly there's a minimum number of basho as a sekitori threshold to pass to become eligible (which is why Enho is desperately trying to get back to juryo). Ichiyamamoto is comfortably clear of that and he won't become more eligible by virtue of holding a higher rank. 

[Koorifuu]

I think Akua's on the same boat as Enho. He's two basho off, and he did seem more outwardly emotional than usual when he narrowly missed out on a promotion a few months ago.

[Heather82Cs]

I find this topic incredibly fascinating for some reason but wouldn't know where to go to learn even more. Iirc there aren't many oyakata on the verge of retirement, so if folks like Enho etc. were to take that route, they 'd have to found a new stable, correct? (I imagine that would be terribly expensive and complicated though.) Where do I find a list of folks who are expected to get stock? And is it possible to predict who will have to just leave instead to make room for others, like what happened to poor Kitajin? Thanks in advance!

Edited November 26 by Heather82Cs

[Gurowake]

1 hour ago, Heather82Cs said:

Iirc there aren't many oyakata on the verge of retirement, so if folks like Enho etc. were to take that route, they 'd have to found a new stable, correct?

If they can't get a kabu from an oyakata who is retiring, then they don't get to become an oyakata.  Ozeki have 3 years and Yokozuna 5 to get kabu after retiring, but everyone else needs one the instant they retire.  There generally aren't enough kabu to go around for those who qualify to hold one.  We've seen plenty of perennial Makuuchi rikishi (Chiyotairyu and Shohozan come to mind) fail to secure one.  Despite the fact that they shouldn't be sold, if you want to get an oyakata to recommend you as their successor, it helps to pay them "consulting fees", so it's more about who has the most generous koenkai than who was best on the dohyo.

Oyakata cannot actively form their own stable unless they were at least Ozeki or had 60 Makuuchi basho (or 25 sanyaku basho, but no one has ever qualified that way and not one of the other ways by the end of their career).  Any oyakata can inherit a stable though.

Edited November 26 by Gurowake

[Reonito]

There are 105 kabu IIRC, so that's all the oyakata there can be at any one time, with the exception of any recently retired ozeki/yokozuna in their grace period as mentioned above.

[RabidJohn]

5 hours ago, Heather82Cs said:

I find this topic incredibly fascinating for some reason but wouldn't know where to go to learn even more. 

Get your kabu news and speculation here: https://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/12380-latest-stock-exchange-news-kabu-oyakata-transfers-etc/