Finnish school system

[Chiyozakura]

During the last days the newspapers in Germany were full of articles on the "PISA report" that showed that German pupils are far from being the best while the top spot went to....Finnland! I read a lot about the possible weaknesses of German school system but I read nothing about the Finnish one. What kinds of schools are there and what subjects have to be taken? One of the main problems in German schools seems to be that natural sciences can be left out of "Abitur" completely...and you can do with sports and religion instead.

[Doitsuyama]

I read an article in my newspaper referring to the finnish school system:

http://www2.tagesspiegel.de/archiv/2001/12...ws-4415509.html

Another article is really funny:

http://www2.tagesspiegel.de/archiv/2001/12...-mn-559570.html

Sorry, both articles are in German. I would advise (especially) the finnish readers to try and read the second one to get a good laugh.

[Guest Kaikitsune]

Another article is really funny:

http://www2.tagesspiegel.de/archiv/2001/12...-mn-559570.html

Sorry, both articles are in German. I would advise (especially) the finnish readers to try and read the second one to get a good laugh.

:-)

It was very funny indeed! The logic with "kaamos" (Finnish word for that phenomenon when the sun doesn`t rise at all in northern Finland) related to reading was interesting

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

What kinds of schools are there and what subjects have to be taken? One of the main problems in German schools seems to be that natural sciences can be left out of "Abitur" completely...and you can do with sports and religion instead.

The obligatory school (peruskoulu) is a nine-year job. First six years at ala-aste (lower classes) during the age 7-12 and then another three years at yl

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

Maybe Kotoseiya has heard this h

[Chiyozakura]

So did I get that right that the last years at school in Finnland are flexible?So it is possible to finish the Finnish form of high school in two to four years?In Germany we already have difficulties reducing the years in school up to the studies from 13 to 12 years, although it is different from state to state.

Another weakness of the German school system is foreign language.You only start to learn English in the 5th grade and then don't have to learn another language, if you don't want to.You have to learn Latin then, but I have never seen somebody speaking Latin fluently so I don't consider it a real language.

An often raised topic is the time children spend at school..In the first grade a child in Germany usually spends only 4 hours a day in school.I remember my first two years very well as I spent most of my time playing football.Once you finished your tasks you could go and play until the last child in the class had finished, too....wonderful years :-/

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

So did I get that right that the last years at school in Finnland are flexible?So it is possible to finish the Finnish form of high school in two to four years?In Germany we already have difficulties reducing the years in school up to the studies from 13 to 12 years, although it is different from state to state.

Another weakness of the German school system is foreign language.You only start to learn English in the 5th grade and then don't have to learn another language, if you don't want to.You have to learn Latin then, but I have never seen somebody speaking Latin fluently so I don't consider it a real language.

An often raised topic is the time children spend at school..In the first grade a child in Germany usually spends only 4 hours a day in school.I remember my first two years very well as I spent most of my time playing football.Once you finished your tasks you could go and play until the last child in the class had finished, too....wonderful years :-/

As I'm an old fart my knowledge about Finnish school might not be too updated so keep this in mind. :-)

The first option becomes at the third year when the first foreign language is selected. Except for large enough towns where there are teachers specialized in other languages than English, that pretty much nullifies the element of choice. I'd estimate more than 90% of the pupils have English as their first foreign language.

You can also choose between handiwork and needlework. You can guess who chooses what here. :-P

At some point in yl

[Usagi]

At the eighth class two subjects were free to be chosen among 6-7 alternatives. I would have liked Russian & French but their classes were held simultaneously so I had to replace French with German.

Achtung, ich habe meine Identit

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

And why should anybody say "Achtung", just because he lost his identity card?

(...)

The only Finish word I mean to remember is "Saksan liito tasavalta" for "Federal Republic of Germany" or "Bundesrepublik Deutschland", which is rather strange:

(...)

In English they say "Germany", in France "Alemagne" in Spain "Alemana", in Finland "Saksan..."

Beats me. :-)

Finnish (Two N's). Actually it's Saksan liittotasavalta (liitto - union, liito - glide).

Saksan is the possessive form, Saksa is the regular word for Germany in Finnish. Many country names in Finnish are not deducible from other languages. It

[Exil]

What an appropriate thread to end one's summer vacation with! (Applauding...)

The obligatory school (peruskoulu) is a nine-year job. First six years at ala-aste (lower classes) during the age 7-12 and then another three years at yl

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

You also forgot to mention that education is state funded and thus free (as in free beer, not as in free software).

(...)

I thought it was 'ep

[Exil]

I'm beginning to suspect you're not yet too exposed to taxes, are you? (Applauding...)

Ep

[Kotonosato]

Sorry to open up an old thread again, but we started talking about English education in Finnland elsewhere, and I thought it would be more appropriate to continue it here.

Beginning from the seventh class the obligatory Swedish arrives. I have nothing against Swedes nor Finnish Swedes (a 6% minority in Finland) but I have everything against tv

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

Sorry to open up an old thread again, but we started talking about English education in Finnland elsewhere, and I thought it would be more appropriate to continue it here.

Beginning from the seventh class the obligatory Swedish arrives. I have nothing against Swedes nor Finnish Swedes (a 6% minority in Finland) but I have everything against tv

Edited August 9, 2007 by Kaikitsune Makoto

[Kintamayama]

I was always under the impression that Finns dislike Swedes and vice versa, and they in turn hate the Norwegians. I guess I was wrong.

[Kaikitsune Makoto]

I was always under the impression that Finns dislike Swedes and vice versa, and they in turn hate the Norwegians. I guess I was wrong.

Not sure how it is in general but Norweigians make fun of Finns' drunkeness and they even have some popular TV-character who speaks Muumi-Swedish and is always drunk, a Finn of course. Perttu? I think Finns make fun of Swedes more than vice versa, Swedes make fun of Norweigians more indeed. I think this is the way. I don't know what Danes do and who does what to Danes. Iceland is Bj

[Kotonosato]

I don't know if it was pre- or post-revolution, but wasn't Finnland also a Russian colony? Any ties left to the Russian language?

I'm still wondering about this one.

Also, you mentioned Estonians. Are there many in Finnland?

PS: I love Bjork.

[Koneko]

Not sure how it is in general but Norweigians make fun of Finns' drunkeness and they even have some popular TV-character who speaks Muumi-Swedish and is always drunk, a Finn of course. Perttu?

Pirkka. And may I add that Pirkka was loved dearly by the whole nation. :-/

A lot of Danes seem to have a somewhat chilly relationhip to Swedes, don't ask me why. Maybe it has to with the fact that the Swedes ran of with half the Danish empire a few hundred years ago? (I.e. Sk

[Kotonosato]

Talk of Denmark and WWII has just reminded me that I used to read Sven Hassel when I was a kid.

Judging by your taste in avatars, I thought you'd be more of a fan of Hasselhoff, not Hassel. (Whistling...)

[Kotonosato]

My deepest apologies. (Whistling...)

I've heard that the Germans love the Hoff. Can this be true?

Edited August 9, 2007 by Kotonosato

[Oimeru]

I've heard that the Germans love the Hoff. Can this be true?

I am offended by such sweeping generalizations.

Some don't love him, but only like him. (Whistling...)

[Kotoseiya Yuichi]

There's only one i in Norwegian.

Swedish wasn't taught obligatorily in Finland before mid-Seventies when few Finnish politicians sold their youth to SFP, a small (4-5 %) "party" whose only mission is to further Swedish in the Finnish society. Unfortunately Finnish party system is so fragmented, practically always a small auxiliary party is needed for two big ones to reach the parliamentary majority. SFP is an easy partner. All they ask is to preserve obligatory Swedish in schools and nominal bilingualism. Everything else suits them. No need to discuss about the acceptability of nuclear power or other such pesky, political issues.

SFP's mental father was a racist who was convinced Finns are barely above apes. SFP still give out medals celebrating his name. Part (thankfully small, I believe) of the Finland-Swede community still shares his views. They just know it's nowadays best to keep that to themselves, within their own community.

Contrary to popular belief, Finnish is not related to Russian at all. Very few Finns know Russian. I remember most of the alphabets from 20 years ago. I couldn't read the simplest of sentences in Russian, yet I'm more fluent in it than 95+ % of Finns. To suggest obligatory Russian (even if only in the easternmost parts of Finland where it would be of real value) would be a political suicide.

For a while (10-20 years?) still Swedish remains the second official language of Finland but the writing is on the wall. Bilingual state in Finnish context is pure madness. If it were such a richness some (honestly?) believe it is, how come the Swedes haven't noticed it? Why isn't Finnish obligatory in Sweden? (Yes, that would be as pure madness, if not more.)

Estonians? It's easy to like them and feel sympathy for their fate in the last century. Knowledge of Estonian is pathetically low in Finland. It's easy for a Finn to recognize it as being quite close to Finnish, but just barely beyond comprehension.

Finns aren't that fluent in English. How could they be relative to Scandinavians? English is related to Scandinavian languages but completely different from Finnish and the Scandinavian pupils don't share the additional burden of a second, foreign language. A forced, disliked language at that. In Finnish-Swedish joint firms the Swedes are often said to be surprised to learn their Finnish colleagues' poor language skills. Three languages, as little time, if not even less. How could a Finn know any language well? Too many of the under thirty years old barely can write comprehensible Finnish as their native language is institutionalizedly despised by the small amount of time dedicated to it in the schools.

No, Kaikitsune. There are no Swedish-speaking Finns. They've never existed. They're Swedes. A Finn speaks Finnish. Why is this so difficult to understand for you people with inferiority complexes and servile minds? You should know better.

If Finnish school system is rated near the top, it just means schools elsewhere suck even more.

Finally, few disclaimers. I don't hate Swedes, Finland-Swedes or Russians. Nor any of languages they speak. I do hate summer soup, obligatory Swedish and most of all, the servitude of some of my countrymen. If someone of you foreigners is interested in collective self-hatred and ultralow self-esteem, do indeed visit Finland. This is your perfect laboratory.

[Kotonosato]

Thanks for the interesting reply, Kotoseiya.

It doesn't account for why the two of you have such excellent English skills, however. Had you lived abroad? Or are you just very intelligent?

Is there a disproportionate number of Finns on this Forum? Some special connection to sumo perhaps? It looks like you guys might have been among the founding members.

[Kotonosato]

The forum is Finnish.

Much better to be Finnish than finished. (Sign of approval...)

[Jakusotsu]

As long as Nish doesn't grow fins...