Math The Banzuke Haru 2024

[Fashiritētā]

1 minute ago, Reonito said:

8 full ranks lower, at that! Is there some extra penalty for sitting out all 7 bouts? @Asashosakari

Part of his punishment for bullying perhaps.

[Bunbukuchagama]

Just now, Fashiritētā said:

Part of his punishment for bullying perhaps.

Is this common? They could just disqualify him, you know. 

[Asashosakari]

4 hours ago, Reonito said:

8 full ranks lower, at that! Is there some extra penalty for sitting out all 7 bouts? @Asashosakari

That's the standard demotions for those records in makushita.

• full kyujo: 40 ranks
• zero wins with partial or no kyujo:
  • at Ms1-5: 30 ranks
  • at Ms6 and lower: 35 ranks

There are distinctions between full and partial/no kyujo in sandanme (60/50) and jonidan (70/60), too. 

Edited May 1, 2024 by Asashosakari
Edited for clarity

[Reonito]

2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

• full kyujo: 40 ranks
• zero wins with partial kyujo:
  • at Ms1-5: 30 ranks
  • at Ms6 and lower: 35 ranks

And something else for zero wins while fighting all 7 bouts?

[Reonito]

3 hours ago, Fashiritētā said:

Part of his punishment for bullying perhaps.

I don't think so; they can rank guys on the low end of "normal" banzuke math for that, but not break things like "you shouldn't be ranked lower than a guy who was ranked lower than you and had the same record." As @Bunbukuchagama says, they can ensure a big demotion by making him sit out.

[Hoshotakamoto]

yeah i should have said 0-0-7 is an automatic -40 (in this case -40.5, which even in this case is a tad unusual), and then they seem to build around this with the relatively predictable moves for 6-1, 5-2, 4-3, 2-5

In my projection I was demoting Kotodaigo 24.5 and Tochi 40.0

[Hoshotakamoto]

But also to this point Hokaho showed up to compete in 1 match and got considerably better treatment than Amakaze. I would have never guessed he'd fall to Sandanme - maybe I should have.

[Yamanashi]

4 hours ago, Reonito said:

8 full ranks lower, at that! Is there some extra penalty for sitting out all 7 bouts? @Asashosakari

According to the db, getting seven defeats from upper Ms drops you about 30 ranks; going 0-0-7 is almost always exactly 40 slots (not counting kosho and Covid).  They'd be 10 ranks apart if they had both started at the same rank, but Toch was at Ms3 and Koto was at Ms5.

[Asashosakari]

1 hour ago, Reonito said:

And something else for zero wins while fighting all 7 bouts?

Sorry, I should have made that clearer. The distinction is just between missing all bouts and missing less than all bouts, i.e. stepping on the dohyo at least once. 0-1-6 (if not fusenpai) and 0-7 and anything between are all the same.

Edited May 2, 2024 by Asashosakari

[Bunbukuchagama]

So, injured rikishi should get on the dohyo once a basho and just drop down on the clay immediately - for a relative gain of 10 ranks or so? 

[Yamanashi]

2 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

So, injured rikishi should get on the dohyo once a basho and just drop down on the clay immediately - for a relative gain of 10 ranks or so? 

This is only the extreme example of the tactic whereby an injured rikishi slogs his broken body out there to the end of the basho in hopes of getting a 4-11 instead of a 3-12 so he can "soften the fall."  Maybe someone knows how much (if any) having a "-1" on the end of a score hurts the ranking next basho.

[Bunbukuchagama]

2 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

This is only the extreme example of the tactic whereby an injured rikishi slogs his broken body out there to the end of the basho in hopes of getting a 4-11 instead of a 3-12 so he can "soften the fall."  Maybe someone knows how much (if any) having a "-1" on the end of a score hurts the ranking next basho.

We already have jonokuchi guys who show up once every basho to get a 1-0-6 and avoid going banzuke-gai. 

In sekitori divisions, there is no official preference for going 0-15 over 0-0-15. On the other hand, if showing up even once gives you a +10 ranks cushion in lower divisions, doing it looks like a no-brainer.