Hatsu 2024 discussion (results)

[yorikiried by fate]

52 minutes ago, bettega said:

Hear me.

Tomorrow Kirishima wins and Kotonowaka loses. Next Kotonowaka defeat Kirishima and Terunofuji.

Kirishima gets the rope (Y+D); Kirishima turns Ozeki with 32 wins + Yusho; Terunofuji gets a D () proving with a worthy Y

 

That's SumoTalk talk. We won't have that!

[Kaninoyama]

10 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I feel the same way about Kotonowaka and Ōhō's sumo, but at least the results in the former's case are undeniable.

Wouldn't have expected this sentiment about Kotonowaka from you. All he's done since he's arrived on the scene is perform while improving steadily, with only an early knee injury slowing him down. 

As for Atamifuji, I don't think anyone's expecting him to be the next dominant Japanese rikishi right away, if at all (that's what Onosato is here for), but at least in Japan, he's popular here for his boyish disposition (he's still only 21), and he's achieving exceptional results despite the fact that, according to his shisho, "the kid still doesn't even know how to do sumo yet."

[bettega]

2 minutes ago, yorikiried by fate said:

That's SumoTalk talk. We won't have that!

My home is here, I only read and post here 

[Asashosakari]

2 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

It's worrisome. Everytime you think he got over whatever ailed him, there's another meltdown.

If you showed me Mitakeumi's bouts without me knowing anything about his history, my first thought would be "he's one of those guys with chronic back pain that comes and goes making every day an A/B lottery".
 

2 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I got to 30 seconds in, thought he really deserved it, and then saw that the clip was over 2 minutes long. Good lord.

That was me exactly, as well.
 

33 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

As for Atamifuji, I don't think anyone's expecting him to be the next dominant Japanese rikishi right away, if at all (that's what Onosato is here for), but at least in Japan, he's popular here for his boyish disposition (he's still only 21), and he's achieving exceptional results despite the fact that, according to his shisho, "the kid still doesn't even know how to do sumo yet."

This makes me wonder what Isegahama would say about Hokuseiho if he were his shisho.

Edited January 28, 2024 by Asashosakari

[Yamanashi]

4 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

More interesting than 7-7 matchups is the fact that all rikishi fighting demotion have been matched against 7-7s, and in at least one case, a KK and promotion seeking rikishi has been matched against a demotion avoiding one. So it's even more dramatic than just a "heads you KK, tails I do" situation. 

I've always found talk of 7-7 matchups overblown because while there is a world of difference between a KK and an MK, it's not usually of that much import to a rikishi's rank unless the rikishi is in a very specific position on the banzuke, much less 2 of them. It's much more compelling to put a 7-7 rikishi against someone else with something to fight for, and there's a lot more of that going around this basho.

I certainly agree, though the kachi/make binary is compelling (yin/yang, n'est-ce pas?).  I'm not sure how often the distribution of 7-7's is so closely packed on the banzuke as it was here; I know that the schedulers seem to love these matchups, and I wonder if they felt frustrated this time.

[I will now have it explained that they don't love these matchups, but I got some weird ideas watching those Israeli Sumo videos, so ... ]

[Bunbukuchagama]

Tanji  is impressive.

 

[Seiyashi]

4 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Wouldn't have expected this sentiment about Kotonowaka from you. All he's done since he's arrived on the scene is perform while improving steadily, with only an early knee injury slowing him down. 

As for Atamifuji, I don't think anyone's expecting him to be the next dominant Japanese rikishi right away, if at all (that's what Onosato is here for), but at least in Japan, he's popular here for his boyish disposition (he's still only 21), and he's achieving exceptional results despite the fact that, according to his shisho, "the kid still doesn't even know how to do sumo yet."

I think my problem is I tend to be drawn to clear "styles" of sumo. So rikishi like Abi, Tamawashi, Takakeishō, Daieishō, Hōshōryū, and Terunofuji get me going. It's quite clear what they want to do in a bout, and the fun comes from seeing how they execute and how they react to rikishi that don't give them their game plan. It's also why most of Miyagino's rikishi appeal to me (bar Tenshōhō and increasingly Hokuseihō).

To me, Kotonowaka and Ōhō don't have as clearly defined styles, and I always felt they were hyped more for pedigree than any quality of sumo (although Kotonowaka's results are forcing me to reevaluate that). 

In a word, their sumo has never been aesthetic to my eyes.

Edited January 28, 2024 by Seiyashi

[Bunbukuchagama]

6 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

To me, Kotonowaka and Ōhō don't have as clearly defined styles, and I always felt they were hyped more for pedigree than any quality of sumo (although Kotonowaka's results are forcing me to reevaluate that). 

Well, you can also call them "well-rounded" if you wish to keep your glass half-full.

[Morty]

6 hours ago, Kotomiyama said:

I felt a pang of pain after Takarafuji's loss today. The way he fell and how he took a moment to stand up, felt like a farewell to Makuuchi to me. I will miss him.

Same, I will miss him. One of my favourite rikishi of the last ten years.

[Gurowake]

Sansho from the tournament winners page:

First the obvious ones:

Shukun-sho Wakamotoharu

Kanto-sho Onosato

Kanto-sho Shimazuumi conditionally (obviously on winning their last match)

Then for Kotonowaka Gino-sho for sure plus Shukun-sho conditionally.  I couldn't find their Twitter post (if they're even still using it) that would clarify whether this requires him winning the yusho or his honwari match (and either one of those can happen without the other, so it might be something else entirely)

Edited January 28, 2024 by Gurowake

[Bunbukuchagama]

3 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I couldn't find their Twitter post (if they're even still using it) that would clarify whether this requires the yusho or just winning.

Here you go:

日本相撲協会公式 on X: "＜千秋楽の様子＞ 三賞が決定しました！ ・殊勲賞 #若元春（初） #琴ノ若 ※優勝した場合（初） ・敢闘賞 #大の里（初） #島津海 ※今日勝てば（初） ・技能賞 #琴ノ若（初） #sumo #相撲 #一月場所 #初場所 https://t.co/CyJKYPS1TF" / X (twitter.com)

[Gurowake]

4 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Here you go:

日本相撲協会公式 on X: "＜千秋楽の様子＞ 三賞が決定しました！ ・殊勲賞 #若元春（初） #琴ノ若 ※優勝した場合（初） ・敢闘賞 #大の里（初） #島津海 ※今日勝てば（初） ・技能賞 #琴ノ若（初） #sumo #相撲 #一月場所 #初場所 https://t.co/CyJKYPS1TF" / X (twitter.com)

 The condition is the yusho.

Edited January 28, 2024 by Gurowake

[Seiyashi]

53 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Well, you can also call them "well-rounded" if you wish to keep your glass half-full.

Well-rounded is Hakuōhō; those two struck me as chaotic. Ōhō still has no clear game plan, but I'll accept Kotonowaka is getting there.

[Bunbukuchagama]

6 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Well-rounded is Hakuōhō; those two struck me as chaotic.

This is a difference of level, not style.

And Tobizaru is chaotic, and so is Ura, and even Shishi. It's not saying much.

[maglor]

Praying for the Chiyomaru loss so that we can get banzuke chaos

Reckon Onokatsu could find his way up?

[Jakusotsu]

Just now, maglor said:

Praying for the Chiyomaru loss so that we can get banzuke chaos

Reckon Onokatsu could find his way up?

That question would be moot if Chiyomaru was Shimanoumi.

[dingo]

7 hours ago, Edwardoho said:

I will be happy to see him go - I’ve never enjoyed his style. 

If he really quits, who are we going to make neckless jokes about? Or how can we mock rikishi who attempt an obviously futile kubinage? 

[Seiyashi]

29 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

This is a difference of level, not style.

And Tobizaru is chaotic, and so is Ura, and even Shishi. It's not saying much.

No, that's precisely it. You know how in RPGs some things work at a higher level of equipment but not at lower levels? That's exactly the difference between Hakuōhō and Ōhō.

Tobizaru and Ura have raised chaos to an art form - so it's also a matter of level for them.

It's sort of like, if you don't have the ability to do something, don't do it and do it shittily. 

Put another way, there is nothing particularly exciting about watching Kotonowaka's and Ōhō's sumo. I still don't find anything special in Kotonowaka's sumo amongst all the sanyaku, but as I said previously, the results can't be argued with.

Edited January 28, 2024 by Seiyashi

[Katooshu]

I like Shishi, but with how awful his technique is it's quite the feat for him to being doing as well in juryo as he has. So so so raw.

[Yamanashi]

7 hours ago, Edwardoho said:

I will be happy to see him go - I’ve never enjoyed his style. 

I would miss him.  A workmanlike guy from Aomori through Kinki Univ.  Not big, not tall, but he leaves Makuuchu after 11 years straight, and a career of 1247 matches w/o a day off.

[Bunbukuchagama]

Aonishiki not only won the first 15 bouts of his ozumo career, but he also wasn't even remotely in trouble while doing it. Impressive.

 

Edited January 28, 2024 by Bunbukuchagama

[Bunbukuchagama]

4 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

I like Shishi, but with how awful his technique is it's quite the feat for him to being doing as well in juryo as he has. So so so raw.

A good body helps. Ask Hokuseiho.

[Benihana]

Ura saved his best for day 15.  I hope this is indicative of what is to come now.

[Bunbukuchagama]

1 minute ago, Benihana said:

Ura saved his best for day 15.  I hope this is indicative of what is to come now.

He was always spectacular. Just not very good.

[Benihana]

2 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

He was always spectacular. Just not very good.

Remind me to harite you, if we ever meet