Kyushu 2023 discussion (results)

[Sakura]

12 hours ago, Reonito said:

That's what I have on my mock torikumi!

I had a massive brain fart. I did in fact have Ichiyamamoto-Daieisho on Day 11, but I had Atamifuji up against Hoshoryu.

[Asashosakari]

Kotoshoho - Shishi was way better than a juryo 7-2 vs 2-7 matchup had any right to be.

And I'm very glad Wakamotoharu instinctively reconsidered his attempt to break the fall off the dohyo with his arm stretched out. That looked like a broken arm in the making until a tenth of a second before impact. 

Edited November 21, 2023 by Asashosakari

[Jakusotsu]

6 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

And I'm very glad Wakamotoharu instinctively reconsidered his attempt to break the fall off the dohyo with his arm stretched out. That looked like a broken arm in the making until a tenth of a second before impact. 

You're the last person I expected to rekindle the old dohyo-height-injuries debate again.

(...kidding, of course...)

[Asashosakari]

5 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

You're the last person I expected to rekindle the old dohyo-height-injuries debate again.

(...kidding, of course...)

Well, make the dohyo less high and he doesn't have that last split second to save himself. In all seriousness, that just wasn't good breakfalling, I think, but he just turned it around in the end. Whew.

[Asashosakari]

On 20/11/2023 at 13:15, Koorifuu said:

Almost all of Onosato's ozumo losses have been against shifting experts i.e. Asakoryu, Kotoshoho, Tamashoho, Tokihayate. He's nigh on unbeatable if faced head on.

I have a feeling Shimazuumi just demonstrated that it's not the shifting as such, but that shifting is a hallmark of guys who are faster (physically, maybe also mentally) than Onosato. Shimazuumi managed to beat him head-on just by taking quick charge of the action today.

[Katooshu]

I think Onosato is a bit like a car that doesn't start particularly fast, but once it gets going it's very powerful. You either catch him right away before he's rolling or get out of the way (and pull/throw him down while at it).

I'm not a scheduling expert, but from looking at the banzuke I'd guess his remaining schedule will be mostly bigger guys who aren't particularly fast. Perhaps less able to exploit his shortcomings.....

Edited November 21, 2023 by Katooshu

[Yamanashi]

5 hours ago, Hankegami said:

the leaderboard now has four goys leading with a 8-2 result

@Kintamayama, any information on this?

[Bunbukuchagama]

5 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

The fact that 13-2 is now the best possible score doesn't bother me in the slightest.

You will have another 11-4 yusho and you will like it!

[Bunbukuchagama]

2 hours ago, Katooshu said:

I think Onosato is a bit like a car that doesn't start particularly fast, but once it gets going it's very powerful. You either catch him right away before he's rolling or get out of the way (and pull/throw him down while at it).

I'm not a scheduling expert, but from looking at the banzuke I'd guess his remaining schedule will be mostly bigger guys who aren't particularly fast. Perhaps less able to exploit his shortcomings.....

That's a lot of words to say "Onosato is slow".

[Katooshu]

That's not what I'm saying 

[Koorifuu]

 

3 hours ago, Katooshu said:

3 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I have a feeling Shimazuumi just demonstrated that it's not the shifting as such, but that shifting is a hallmark of guys who are faster (physically, maybe also mentally) than Onosato. Shimazuumi managed to beat him head-on just by taking quick charge of the action today.

I think Onosato is a bit like a car that doesn't start particularly fast, but once it gets going it's very powerful. You either catch him right away before he's rolling or get out of the way (and pull/throw him down while at it).

I'm not a scheduling expert, but from looking at the banzuke I'd guess his remaining schedule will be mostly bigger guys who aren't particularly fast. Perhaps less able to exploit his shortcomings.....

That does sound like a better way of putting it, indeed.

Looking at his vanquishers from a "explosive guys" perspective rather than "swift sidesteppers", then there's only one outlier: Roga on senshuraku @ Aki.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Koorifuu

[nelimw]

7 hours ago, sumojoann said:

OMG again!  This time it was Tsurugisho picking up Hokuseiho and depositing him outside the dohyo.  Are these rikishi making bets now to see who else can do this??  Or did Tsurugisho just say to himself, "Well, dang!  If Nishikigi can do it, why not me??"

Honestly, Tsurugisho is making a fan out of me this tournament. To do that on practically one leg is seriously impressive.  

[Seiyashi]

This basho is certainly not disappointing heading into the second week. Not brilliant sumo, but the past few years have been wtf enough that this basho feels like a step change up.

Hokuseihō and Daieishō have to be the biggest disappointments. The latter has been beaten in ways you'd expect Enhō to be beaten, and Daieishō flying off the dohyō headlong like something out of a slapstick comedy gets old after a while. That said, it's still respectable that he's still in the yūshō race even after looking like a total prat in his losses.

The wheels are certainly going off the Miyagino train a bit, with Hokuseihō and Tenshōhō doing badly, and three sekitori-class rikishi laid up with injury.

Edited November 21, 2023 by Seiyashi

[Asashosakari]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

That's a lot of words to say "Onosato is slow".

He's actually pretty fast for someone his size. It's just that he appears to be somewhat vulnerable while he's gearing up, so yeah, the car comparison is very apt.

I almost hate to make the comparison because their styles are so different, but I'm kinda getting Hokuseiho vibes, in that they both have that initial phase in most bouts where, if you disrupt their very specific game plan then and there, they really don't have (or at least don't currently demonstrate) the means to react quickly enough.

[Gurowake]

I greatly apologize for jinxing Takayasu.

[dingo]

I still wanna see The Neckless One in makuuchi next basho so he better start winning soon. He's not looked horribly bad imo but there's not many chances left.

Atamifuji is gonna be in joi next basho. Wonder if he's ready for that? Will be interesting to see.

Excellent bout by Midorifuji. As much as I hate seeing Takayasu lose, that throw was beautifully executed.

Both Ura and Tobizaru didn't have the best starts this basho but are slowly getting their wins. Let's see if they actually will manage kachikoshi!

Kotonowaka stayed really calm and careful against unknown opponent Gounoyama and it paid off. Having absorbed the initial attacks he patiently waited for an opening and calmly executed his throw. Excellent sumo right there.

I hope Asanoyama is not injuring himself further after coming out of kyujo for the second half of the basho. Today he seemed to limp a bit after being pushed out by Daieisho.

Surprised that there was no monoii in Hoshoryuu vs Wakamotoharu, even just to confirm Hoshoryuu's victory. Seemed like a close enough call.

Well Takakeisho is pulling out every tool in his limited box of about 3. Seeing as he's getting desperate and can't afford to lose any bouts, I can't exactly blame him. 

[dingo]

11 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Kirishima looks solid as a rock. Like Kakuryu reincarnated. 

Like the attacking Kakuryu or the pulling Kakuryu? 

[Reonito]

6 hours ago, Sakura said:

I had a massive brain fart. I did in fact have Ichiyamamoto-Daieisho on Day 11, but I had Atamifuji up against Hoshoryu.

That's quite an escalation.

[Oskanohana]

1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

I greatly apologize for jinxing Takayasu.

Next time just...

Now he won't be able to lose the jun-yusho by clumsily slipping and losing by hikiotoshi on senshuraku against Ichiyamamoto.

[Reonito]

14 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Aqua throws the rooftop salt again. And loses, again.

It seems like he just skipped that one day for some reason...

[Bunbukuchagama]

3 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I almost hate to make the comparison because their styles are so different, but I'm kinda getting Hokuseiho vibes, in that they both have that initial phase in most bouts where, if you disrupt their very specific game plan then and there, they really don't have (or at least don't currently demonstrate) the means to react quickly enough.

Does Hokuseiho even have a game plan?

[Godango]

15 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Does Hokuseiho even have a game plan?

[Katooshu]

Speaking of, Homer Simpson is actually a North American sumo pioneer

 

[Akinomaki]

On 16/11/2023 at 22:34, Akinomaki said:

After the jobansen (序盤戦 - first 3rd of the basho) it looks like Roga won't remain in makuuchi and only Churanoumi is on pace for the newcomer sansho.

Daieisho is still in the lead for most wins of the year, but Hoshoryu is closing in on him

Abi is not preparing an ozeki run, Kotonowaka and Daieisho could still be promoted after this basho with a (proper) yusho. Some other run? - no comment

After the chuubansen 中盤戦 it looks similar: Daieiesho now has to share the lead for most wins of the year with Kiribayama sumodb/Query?basho=6&year=2023&sort_by=sum_wins (now Kirishima, the query takes the shikona from the first basho, the start of the year), but by beating Asanoyama today, he pulled even with him in most wins of the year overall, not just makuuchi. o

Kotonowaka in the shuubansen 終盤戦 still can turn it around to start the new year as Kotozakura.

[Kaninoyama]

3 hours ago, dingo said:

Like the attacking Kakuryu or the pulling Kakuryu? 

A little of both. But like Kakuryu, he eventually figures it out and goes on to be the next (?) yokozuna.