Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

The NHK announcer first called it tsukiotoshi, then repeated that Tamawashi made a tsukiotoshi, but that it was called a gasshohineri. First he had 2 hands at the head but in the end smashed him down with the right, Kitanofuji commented that that isn't called a gasshohineri. Tamawashi also was surprised, though he performed the right hineri moves as well, only it wasn't the final deciding technique, which is what the kimarite should be.

Kitanofuji: the kimarite-gakari called it that, so let's take it as OK

Abema speculated tsukiotoshi, then kubihineri, pointing out that the requirements for a gasshohineri are different

Edited by Akinomaki
  • Like 2
Posted

Clearly, some kimarite are so rare that you don't recognize them when you see them, and when you recognize them you don't see them.

Posted (edited)

This is hilarious!!  It's a 2011 Japanese TV game show called "Can You Name that Rare Sumo Technique?"  It features Hakuho, Kaio, Baruto, Kotooshu, Takamisakari and a retired Chiyonofuji among others trying to guess the rare kimarite shown in videos of various ozumo bouts.  Some of the guesses were spot-on while others were hilariously wrong (kotenage?!).  (Move your cursor back if it jumps forward at the beginning). 

 

Edited by Jakusotsu
(Move your cursor back if it jumps forward at the beginning) -> fixed
  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, sumojoann said:

This is hilarious!!  It's a 2011 Japanese TV game show called "Can You Name that Rare Sumo Technique?"  It features Hakuho, Kaio, Baruto, Kotooshu, Takamisakari and a retired Chiyonofuji among others trying to guess the rare kimarite shown in videos of various ozumo bouts.  Some of the guesses were spot-on while others were hilariously wrong (kotenage?!).  (Move your cursor back if it jumps forward at the beginning). 

 

Superb find.

The chap in a suit next to Chiyonofuji is the then-Tomozuna oyakata, ex-Kaiki. The guy next to ex-Kaiki is ex-Kaiketsu, Hanaregoma oyakata, then rijichō, who goes on to demonstrate the difference between gasshōhineri and tokkurinage. (The unfortunate guinea pig is complaining about his grip strength.)

It's hilarious that the first two bouts feature the precise kimarite under discussion of late. 

Of the nonsense kimarite made up by the guests, the Harumafuji-Asashōryū one (momo-age-nage) is guessed as "bum-lifting throw". It's eventually revealed to be yaguranage, which Hakuhō proceeds to demonstrate with an unfortunately placed knee, and some egging on by Chiyonofuji.

Edited by Seiyashi
  • Like 2
Posted

Btw, it's the call in the Tochimusashi-Kaisho bout correct? Of course Kasugano's man left hand is doing uwatenage, but because he's grabbing Kaisho's knee with the other hand, I thought the kimarite would be different.

Posted
On 22/11/2022 at 04:03, specialweek 2 said:

Absolutely tokkurinage. 

This old Japan Times Kimarite List reference mentions that "[tokkurinage] was also called gasshohineri but that name is now used to describe a variation of tokkurinage." I don't know how old the website is.

This seems to explain the confusion/disagreement.

  • Like 1
  • 6 months later...
Posted
On 10/09/2022 at 16:50, Kintamayama said:

Zubuneri Haru 1998  Asahiyutaka- Teraou

Like every basho the watch was announced by Nikkan - another one down today

  • Like 2
  • 5 months later...
  • 2 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...
Posted
On 22/11/2022 at 19:02, Akinomaki said:

The NHK announcer first called it tsukiotoshi, then repeated that Tamawashi made a tsukiotoshi, but that it was called a gasshohineri. First he had 2 hands at the head but in the end smashed him down with the right, Kitanofuji commented that that isn't called a gasshohineri. Tamawashi also was surprised, though he performed the right hineri moves as well, only it wasn't the final deciding technique, which is what the kimarite should be.

Kitanofuji: the kimarite-gakari called it that, so let's take it as OK

Abema speculated tsukiotoshi, then kubihineri, pointing out that the requirements for a gasshohineri are different

Used to be quite the kimarite fiend back in the day, but now I'm living off memories. I also used to be quite a stickler for calling the precise ending technique, but with time I've relaxed that view a bit, since sumo is generally a continuous series of techniques and it's sometimes hard to tell what was the actual decisive move.

For example, let's assume Kaio is facing Miyabiyama, and they're locked in the middle of the dohyo, hidari-yotsu. Kaio breaks his right hand mawashi grip and locks Fatman's left arm, then he twists left and back to deploy the dreadful kotenage throw. It doesn't fell Miyabiyama down to the ground, but rather sends the guy completely off balance to the edge, where he's tip-toeing for half a second before Kaio flicks him over the tawara. Are you gonna call it okuridashi? Or are you gonna call it kotenage?

Another example, and you see this one quite a lot. One guy is clearly winning the pushing game, inching the other guy towards the edge. The other guy slips an arm under the attacker's pit, swinging him down towards the floor. He finishes the job with a palm on the guy's back, but it's not clear whether the guy would have fallen down on his own or the final push was the one that did it. Sukuinage or tsukiotoshi?

And since we're on the subject of ambiguity, oosakate and utchari are hard to distinguish sometimes, because a "pure" oosakate requires monstrous shoulder and arm strength without help from the other side. Case in point, if you were to ask me what the kimarite in the Kotonowaka pic above was, I'd answer utchari almost without thinking. But that doesn't mean it wasn't MOSTLY an oosakate, i. e. that most of the momentum was caused by the reverse arm throw.

That said, I get the distinct feeling that sometimes kimarite calls are just boneheaded, as if the guy in charge is half asleep or something.

  • Like 1
  • 1 year later...
Posted (edited)

An article from today. I am only the translator-no guarantee of facts, but I found it interesting enough to spend 4 days and some chicken soup translating it..

There was a time when the types and definitions of winning techniques were undefined, but in 1955 the Kyokai established 68 techniques. Since then, the number has been updated over time to 70 in 1960 and 82 in 2001, correct for today.. Although the frequency of their appearance varies in Makuuchi in official tournaments, most winning techniques have been recorded. However, there are some techniques that have never appeared in Makuuchi since they were first established and could be considered extremely rare. These are the four - "kake-zori," "tasuki-zori," "shumoku-zori, (the infamous-"shmuck-sorry")" and "soto-tasuki-zori."

 

What is Kakezori? Put your head under the armpit of your opponent's thrust hand, and turn with the foot you stepped in to knock your opponent backwards, or knock him backwards with an outside throw.

What is Tasukizori? While holding the elbow of your opponent's thrust hand, you sneak in, grab your opponent's foot from the inside with your other hand, and bend your body backwards to knock him backwards.

What is Shumokuzori? After getting into the chest in the same way as Tasukizori, lift your opponent onto your shoulders and bend him backwards.

What is Sototasukizori? While holding your opponent's thrust hand, put your other hand into the inner thigh on the opponent's thrust hand side, and bend your body backwards to knock him backwards.

What is Imu-sorry? Take your opponents head in  both of your  hands and from very close up ask him why he left all the dishes in the sink last night after ordering seven Baby Burgers from Burger King. Then squeeze hard.

So, why have these four techniques not been used in Makuuchi to date?  Although the four techniques above have different forms, what they all have in common is that the rikishi who initiates them gets inside the opponent's arms and then bends his body. This common denominator is the biggest reason why these four techniques have not been used since the rules were established. In sumo. It is generally considered good to keep a moderate distance from your opponent and attack from a low position to make the opponent unstable. On the other hand, the four techniques above restrict movement by being close to your opponent, and also expose your back, which can make the situation worse if it you are caught attempting it. In addition, even if you manage to get into a position to perform the technique, there is a risk that your opponent will put his weight on you from above and crush you, or that the opponent who you lift up will struggle wildly and throw you off balance. Furthermore, in the sumo world, rikishi are getting bigger with the times, and it is becoming increasingly more difficult to bend or lift up an opponent in the first place.

So who is expected to be the first to use one of these 4 techniques in Makuuchi?  The four techniques are becoming more difficult to execute every year, but there is no guarantee that the current situation will continue in the future. In the current sumo world, Ura has the potential to open the door to history. Ura performed the first ever tasuki-zori in a match ranked in or above Juryo in the January 2017 tournament when he was in Juryo . At that time, Ura was in an unfavorable situation, with his opponent thrusting his left hand into him early in the match and his right hand being held. However, he twisted his head into his opponent's left armpit, rotated to the right, and warped his body, forcing his opponent to fall to the dohyo. In addition, in the September 2022 tournament, he performed a tsutae-zori, which had not been seen in Makuuchi  for 20 years, and he also pulled off the same technique in the January 2024 tournament, January 2025 tournament, and May 2025 tournament. Ura was known as a master of the "bending techniques (Zori-waza)" even before he entered the sumo world, and his skill lives up to his name and continues to fascinate many fans. This year marks 70 years since these four techniques were established. Will Ura be able to pull off the legendary technique that has yet to be used in Makuuchi in its long history, or will another rikishi emerge from the pack? With three tournaments remaining this year, it will be interesting to see not only the outcome, but also what techniques will be used.

 

Edited by Kintamayama
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 5
  • Haha 2
Posted
9 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

An article from today. I am only the translator-no guarantee of facts, but I found it interesting enough to spend 4 days and some chicken soup translating it..

Apparently your powers include access to a time machine (Laughing...)

Posted
2 hours ago, Reonito said:

Apparently your powers include access to a time machine (Laughing...)

The chicken soup, like any good soup. took 3 days to make. The translation- only one.

  • Like 2
Posted
14 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

There was a time when the types and definitions of winning techniques were undefined, but in 1955 the Kyokai established 68 techniques. Since then, the number has been updated over time to 70 in 1960 and 82 in 2001, correct for today.. Although the frequency of their appearance varies in Makuuchi in official tournaments, most winning techniques have been recorded. However, there are some techniques that have never appeared in Makuuchi since they were first established and could be considered extremely rare. These are the four - "kake-zori," "tasuki-zori," "shumoku-zori, (the infamous-"shmuck-sorry")" and "soto-tasuki-zori."

The db lists 122,152 Makuuchi bouts since 1955. Yorikiri is the most common kimarite, with 35,585 entries, followed by oshidashi with 19,529 and then a big dropoff to hatakikomi. 18 kimarite have been used at least 1,000 times. 71 have been used fewer than 1,000 times, though this includes fusen, hansoku, and the 5 non-techniques, leaving 64 actual kimarite. 18+64 = 82, so I wonder if there are older techniques that were removed in the more recent updates. It looks like 22 techniques + fumidashi have occurred at most 10 times, with 3 having been used only once—okurigake, tsukaminage, and tsumatori—with the most recent use being Terutsuyoshi beating Chiyomaru by okurigake in 2019.

  • Like 2

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...